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Boke1879
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Swarlee

And...


I had the benefit of going to a Hitalia panel at an anime convention run by all women. They started off saying it was PG since there were kids there. Wasnt more than two minutes in before the first semen joke. It just went down hill from there. Yuk! I left thinking if that'd been a panel of dudes they would be leaving in handcuffs.


Point I'm trying to make is women make sexual jokes too and that alone means nothing.



OT: The man sounds like a creep but she kept working for him for two months and left because the job was going nowhere not due to his actions.


You last sentence really could have been left out. It has nothing to do with anything.
Westbahnhof
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

Because it's demonstrably true that women lying about sexual harassment/abuse accusations is an INCREDIBLY rare phenomenon.

Because it's also demonstrably true that most men accused of sexual harassment/abuse get away with it scot-free.

Because the burden society places on women that come forward with these accusations is so intense that it's hard to believe any woman would ever come forward with something that they had just made up.

Because believing women and victims when they come forward about these things is important and morally correct.

I mentioned that I'm far removed from the situation.
I can afford to remain neutral in this case, so I want to do that.
Me wanting to hear more before making a personal judgment doesn't impact their lives, so I have that luxury. Because I'm not a factor.
I might as well not exist.

In a situation where my thoughts are irrelevant to the well-being of the victim, I want to make sure I don't condemn someone within the first second.

Edit:
I really don't like the suggestion that in a situation like this, where my views don't impact anyone and I have never heard of anyone involved, I have a moral obligation to take a side.
Izuna
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Generalpsyduck

I don't see why someone would lie about something as serious as being sexually harassed.

It has happened.

I'm not so sure about public reports like this.
Neece
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Neece

Screen Junkies employs a fair amount of women on their various shows. Roxy is the host for TV Fights. Roth is the host and editor in chief for their news channel. Alicia Malone is a frequent host of Movie Fights. And then there are the long list of female guests they invite on (I've discovered a lot of nerdy women, and women of color through them being invited on as guests). And the guys there, Dan, Spencer, and Andy are frequent defenders of women. Hell Andy and the crew just spoke out against James Cameron when the Wonder Woman quotes hit.

I just don't see a way Andy doesn't respond to something like this. They've built up their brand, at least on the surface, as being inclusive, inviting a lot of women, and not just a good ole boys club.



I can't see it not being addressed.


Following up on this. Danielle Radford worked for Andy for Screen Junkie news, and she appears on TV fights a lot. She is the only Screen Junkie associate I've seen comment so far, though she hasn't said any names or @ anyone, so maybe it's not directly related to Andy?



Budi
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(10-06-2017, 03:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Westbahnhof

I mentioned that I'm far removed from the situation.
I can afford to remain neutral in this case, so I want to do that.
Me wanting to hear more before making a personal judgment doesn't impact their lives, so I have that luxury. Because I'm not a factor.
I might as well not exist.

In a situation where my thoughts are irrelevant to the well-being of the victim, I want to make sure I don't condemn someone within the first second.

I think this is very well said. I absolutely do think that women should feel safe when coming out with stuff like this. I won't call her a liar, I won't deny her claims. It's not my business. But me condemning the accused at this point does nothing good either. In cases where sexual harassment or assault has happened, it's up to the authorities to listen, treat people with respect and make them feel safe. Things need to be properly investigated and not just brushed under the rug. In this case I feel it would be up to Defy to deal with this. If Signore is a sexual harasser, I'd say it would be fair for him to lose his job since this was work related.

Edit: Also when someone comes to me and tells me about the harassment they have faced, I'm ofcourse supportive. But at this point I'm just a nobody on a forum and I can't do anything to help the victim.
weemadarthur
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Snowman Prophet of Doom

Absent evidence, agnosticism is the morally correct position.

Eyewitness and victim statements ARE evidence.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by weemadarthur

Eyewitness and victim statements ARE evidence.

The existence of an allegation is not evidentiarily strong enough to budge one from neutrality, and there is no corroborating testimony in this instance.
Inferno313
Banned
(10-06-2017, 03:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Budi

I think this is very well said. I absolutely do think that women should feel safe when coming out with stuff like this. I won't call her a liar, I won't deny her claims. It's not my business. But me condemning the accused at this point does nothing good either. In cases where sexual harassment or assault has happened, it's up to the authorities to listen, treat people with respect and make them feel safe. Things need to be properly investigated and not just brushed under the rug.

Edit: Also when someone comes to me and tells me about the harassment they have face, I'm ofcourse supportive. But at this point I'm just a nobody on a forum and I can't do anything to help the victim.

Contributing to an environment that doesn't greet heavy and hard-to-admit accusations with thousands of men going "where's the proof? huh? huh? huh?" helps victims.
black070
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Emma R Bowers

Now is a good time to remind everyone I was sexually harrassed by Andy Signore

This reads so strangely to me.
Sethista
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

Because it's demonstrably true that women lying about sexual harassment/abuse accusations is an INCREDIBLY rare phenomenon.

Because it's also demonstrably true that most men accused of sexual harassment/abuse get away with it scot-free.

Because the burden society places on women that come forward with these accusations is so intense that it's hard to believe any woman would ever come forward with something that they had just made up.

Because believing women and victims when they come forward about these things is important and morally correct.

In my oponion, morally correct is to have facts that corroborate a claim before we judge someone, anyone, on anything.

Of course there are levels to that. Cosby did it. I dont care if all we have against him is the account of women he attacked, to me is pretty clear cut he is guilty.

This case, I actually do believe the girl. I think it happened just like she said. But I can be wrong, easily, since that is my personal opinion, and not a fact. I hope more women come forward, if he really did it I doubt it was jsut her, and more evidence appear to back them up, and we can bury him as well.

A question for you, I dont know if you have a son, but if you do, or imagine one day you do, what if a girl or woman comes to you and accuses him of sexual harassement? Would you judge him automatically guilty, or would want more information before ?
Nokagi
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:40 PM)

Originally Posted by Inferno313

Because believing women and victims when they come forward about these things is important and morally correct.

You can listen to a person's story without dismissing his/her claims while also keeping your mind open to all possibilities. Even if 99% of accusers are truthful you should always keep that 1% in your mind. Notice I said in your mind. You should never throw doubt directly at the victim/accuser.

Originally Posted by bronson

Pretty gross email "promotion" from Signore a few years back

The fuck. Wow that's bad.
Westbahnhof
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

Contributing to an environment that doesn't greet heavy and hard-to-admit accusations with thousands of men going "where's the proof? huh? huh? huh?" helps victims.

But that's not what we are saying.
We are in a forum, discussion the situation, and saying "let's not end the discussion yet, let's wait with judgement in here. Let us see what follows".
Nobody is denying the possibility, calling her a liar, or asking her about proof.

Like I edited in on the previous page:
It's likely everything went down as she said.
I would still like to see how he reacts, and if others come forward, before putting him on my mental shit list.
Inferno313
Banned
(10-06-2017, 03:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sethista

In my oponion, morally correct is to have facts that corroborate a claim before we judge someone, anyone, on anything.

Of course there are levels to that. Cosby did it. I dont care if all we have against him is the account of women he attacked, to me is pretty clear cut he is guilty.

This case, I actually do believe the girl. I think it happened just like she said. But I can be wrong, easily, since that is my personal opinion, and not a fact. I hope more women come forward, if he really did it I doubt it was jsut her, and more evidence appear to back them up, and we can bury him as well.

A question for you, I dont know if you have a son, but if you do, or imagine one day you do, what if a girl or woman comes to you and accuses him of sexual harassement? Would you judge him automatically guilty, or would want more information before ?

100% yes, I would believe the girl.

I also intend to talk to my future son throughout his entire childhood about the importance of consent, of respecting women, of keeping it in your pants, and of not being a fucking creeper.

"If it were your son" is a gross angle to take here. This is a grown-ass man.
benicillin
Banned
(10-06-2017, 03:45 PM)

Originally Posted by bronson

Pretty gross email "promotion" from Signore a few years back

Subject: How Superman would Rape women

Neece
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by black070

This reads so strangely to me.

I think she said it that way because she tweeted it before back in February and September and it didn't get any traction.


Volimar
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by bronson

Pretty gross email "promotion" from Signore a few years back


That was pretty stupid. I mean I accept the explanation, but come on, you ought to know better than to think that's okay.
Sethista
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(10-06-2017, 03:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

Because it's demonstrably true that women lying about sexual harassment/abuse accusations is an INCREDIBLY rare phenomenon.

Because it's also demonstrably true that most men accused of sexual harassment/abuse get away with it scot-free.

Because the burden society places on women that come forward with these accusations is so intense that it's hard to believe any woman would ever come forward with something that they had just made up.

Because believing women and victims when they come forward about these things is important and morally correct.

Originally Posted by Inferno313

100% yes, I would believe the girl.

I also intend to talk to my future son throughout his entire childhood about the importance of consent, of respecting women, of keeping it in your pants, and of not being a fucking creeper.

"If it were your son" is a gross angle to take here. This is a grown-ass man.

Anywhere did I say or try to defend him. I think he did it.

The son example was to illustrate how important it is to see evidence before judging one way or another.

Hope that clears the point I tried t make.
black070
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Neece

I think she said it that way because she tweeted it before back in February and September and it didn't get any traction.

Ah okay, that makes more sense.
Valdfellgar
Banned
(10-06-2017, 03:50 PM)

Originally Posted by bronson

Pretty gross email "promotion" from Signore a few years back

Kinda 'impressive' how he tries to play the smiley faces off as "Had I been able to read the subject and email out loud, you would have heard disdain and shock in my voice."

Right now my personal take, not that it matters since I, like many, have no relation or affiliation with ScreenJunkies outside of sometimes watching their honest trailers, is to remain neutral. I don't disbelieve Ms. Bowers, but I also can't yet be sure Andy is guilty (The e-mail does kind of tip the needle however.) It's a paradox, sure, but I think it's necessary otherwise we presume guilt before innocence or lies before truths.

I will say I just hope/pray Ms. Bowers doesn't receive significant backlash for her statements. If true, she's taking a real brave step coming out and the best as someone disassociated from it all, is hope that she doesn't face significant adversity. I mean, she will, we all know how this goes, but you can't do much but pray.
excelsiorlef
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by bronson

Pretty gross email "promotion" from Signore a few years back

His explanation/apology is horrific to boot

WTF is that shit
Westbahnhof
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(10-06-2017, 03:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

100% yes, I would believe the girl.

I also intend to talk to my future son throughout his entire childhood about the importance of consent, of respecting women, of keeping it in your pants, and of not being a fucking creeper.

"If it were your son" is a gross angle to take here. This is a grown-ass man.

So no matter which person in your life is accused of sexual harassment or assault, as long as it is physically possible to have happened, you'd believe the accusation and condemn them?
This is not a "gotcha" question.
It sounds like the answer is yes, and I want confirmation.
excelsiorlef
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Volimar

That was pretty stupid. I mean I accept the explanation, but come on, you ought to know better than to think that's okay.

He's far to excited about this for me to believe he felt bad at all
Inferno313
Banned
(10-06-2017, 03:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Westbahnhof

So no matter which person in your life is accused of sexual harassment or assault, you'd believe the accusation and condemn them?
This is not a "gotcha" question.
It sounds like the answer is yes, and I want confirmation.

Yes, absolutely. I believe women when they come forward. Full-stop. End of story.
Volimar
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(10-06-2017, 03:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by excelsiorlef

He's far to excited about this for me to believe he felt bad at all


He comes off like he doesn't understand how screwed up the things he says are until they're explained to him. Like how did you get to be an adult and think that was okay stuff to say and do? Were you completely insulated in a sexist bunker?
Westbahnhof
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(10-06-2017, 04:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

Yes, absolutely. I believe women when they come forward. Full-stop. End of story.

Okay. That sounds like overcompensation for a very real problem, to me.

Sorry but I gotta ask another question, but since you phrased it in a gendered way, would you believe men accusing anyone you know, as well?
Inferno313
Banned
(10-06-2017, 04:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Westbahnhof

Okay. That sounds like overcompensation for a very real problem, to me.

Sorry but I gotta ask another question, but since you phrased it in a gendered way, would you believe men accusing anyone you know, as well?

Yes, sorry. I should've specified "victims" instead of "women." It's early here.
Budi
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(10-06-2017, 04:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

Contributing to an environment that doesn't greet heavy and hard-to-admit accusations with thousands of men going "where's the proof? huh? huh? huh?" helps victims.

Yeah that's true, which is why I'm not defending Signore here either. As I said earlier, it doesn't matter that he seems to be a decent dude when in puplic since I personally don't know him. It's very possible that everything happened as she has told and it's awful that this is so common. It's also very sad and incredibly harmful that people are often attacked when they speak out about harassment and abuse.
excelsiorlef
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(10-06-2017, 04:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Volimar

He comes off like he doesn't understand how screwed up the things he says are until they're explained to him. Like how did you get to be an adult and think that was okay stuff to say and do? Were you completely insulated in a sexist bunker?

I'm not even fully convinced he did grasp how fucked up what he said was. Just someone who knew he should say sorry
Zen_Arcade
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(10-06-2017, 04:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

Yes, absolutely. I believe women when they come forward. Full-stop. End of story.

That's a really dumb position to take and you're going to be a bad father if that's your attitude.
Sethista
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(10-06-2017, 04:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

Yes, absolutely. I believe women when they come forward. Full-stop. End of story.

You understand that most people here also believes the girl, right? Including me.

The only difference is I understand that there is a possibility it didnt happen, but the heat is now on him to make a statement, and any other evidence that comes against him will be extremely amplified because she came forward. Hell, women that didnt want to come forward now have this girl as inspiration to do so.

I know it seems like her coming forward did nothing, but it did. Even for people like me that need more to really put him on the asshole list, he is on the spotlight now.
DavidDesu
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(10-06-2017, 04:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dice//

I'm becoming convinced people aren't used to fame and they just turn weirdly crappy weirdly fast.

Sick if true; there's way too much of this sort of thing.

The corruption of power in turbo boost. It seems so odd to me that these guys would send such brutally honest requests and over social media where anything can easily be screen capped.. what's wrong with them!? Surely power doesn't corrupt people THAT easily? I just find it fascinating but also of course deeply disturbing as you just know people with real power absolutely do take advantage of others who they can manipulate, it's why I tend to believe stories about paedophile MP rings and the like. Those people in those position who want to do that kind of thing have so much influence over all those around them, even over police etc, to get what they want.
Bobo Dakes
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(10-06-2017, 04:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Snowman Prophet of Doom

The existence of an allegation is not evidentiarily strong enough to budge one from neutrality, and there is no corroborating testimony in this instance.

You think you're being neutral, but ...
Westbahnhof
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(10-06-2017, 04:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

Yes, sorry. I should've specified "victims" instead of "women." It's early here.

Good, I thought so.
Or well, not good, less bad, I guess.
I still view it as extreme to trust the word of literally anyone over the word of someone you might trust, love, and have known all your life, simply because of the nature of the accusation.
Metalmarc
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(10-06-2017, 04:07 PM)
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Someone posted this

@Mikkavalleau
Iím sorry this happened. He tried to get me to hookup with him before & after my Movie Fight. I wish I still had the texts. That I had proof
Bobo Dakes
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(10-06-2017, 04:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Westbahnhof

So no matter which person in your life is accused of sexual harassment or assault, as long as it is physically possible to have happened, you'd believe the accusation and condemn them?
This is not a "gotcha" question.
It sounds like the answer is yes, and I want confirmation.

You don't have to immediately condemn a person because they're accused. You can look to them and go "is there something you want to say?" if you want to hear their side of the story.
excelsiorlef
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Metalmarc

Someone posted this

@Mikkavalleau
I’m sorry this happened. He tried to get me to hookup with him before & after my Movie Fight. I wish I still had the texts. That I had proof

Well there's 2.
Inferno313
Banned
(10-06-2017, 04:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zen_Arcade

That's a really dumb position to take and you're going to be a bad father if that's your attitude.

Not letting a son get away with participating in the boy's club culture that so many in this thread seemingly are ok with perpetuating would make me a bad father?

That's a take.
bigjeffery
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(10-06-2017, 04:10 PM)
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How aggressively "woke" was this guy before the news broke? Is this another Devin Faraci/Joss Whedon/Nick Robinson situation?
Westbahnhof
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(10-06-2017, 04:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bobo Dakes

You don't have to immediately condemn a person because they're accused. You can look to them and go "is there something you want to say?" if you want to hear their side of the story.

Well yes, but inferno said "I'd believe them 100%".
Which means that if no sides presents any evidence, guilt will be presumed.
A terrible system imo.
We're talking about a well known and trusted person in this hypothetical.

Originally Posted by Inferno313

Not letting a son get away with participating in the boy's club culture that so many in this thread seemingly are ok with perpetuating would make me a bad father?

That's a take.

Assuming the guilt of a child you raised to the best of your abilities in a situation where there is no evidence and your child asks for your support doesn't sound good, I think.
Zen_Arcade
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(10-06-2017, 04:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bobo Dakes

You don't have to immediately condemn a person because they're accused. You look to them and go "is there something you want to say?"

That's not what he said he'd do though. He said he would automatically believe the woman full stop. If you're automatically believing the woman, it wouldn't matter what the other party has to say because you've already made up your mind. If you automatically believe the woman, you're automatically condemning the other party.

What you're suggesting is basically what people here are saying you should do. Consider that the woman might be telling the truth, but inquire for more evidence before condemning the accused.

Originally Posted by Inferno313

Not letting a son get away with participating in the boy's club culture that so many in this thread seemingly are ok with perpetuating would make me a bad father?

That's a take.

In the situatuon posed to you, you literally have zero evidence that your son did anything they're accused of. You have no proof of his participation outside of an accusation, which people have made innacurately before.

So yes, you'll be a bad father because you're baselessly trusting of strangers over your own family and have knee jerk reactions to situations that deserve more thought and consideratuon.
Seesaw15
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:12 PM)
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Damn. No screenshots? That's tough. The dude almost certainly did it but its gonna be tough to prove without some evidence. If this is a pattern of behavior I hope more people come forward.

Originally Posted by Metalmarc

Someone posted this

@Mikkavalleau
I’m sorry this happened. He tried to get me to hookup with him before & after my Movie Fight. I wish I still had the texts. That I had proof

I hope someone saved some text.
Neece
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Metalmarc

Someone posted this

@Mikkavalleau
I’m sorry this happened. He tried to get me to hookup with him before & after my Movie Fight. I wish I still had the texts. That I had proof

Video after she appeared on Movie Fights.

Just goes to show how complicated it can be to be cordial to the people that sexually harass you, especially "important" people. She calls Andy a great host and good person in the video. But it's worth noting this was a "fan fights" edition and she described herself as fangirl of Screen Junkies. So she was super stoked just to be on there to meet the people she loves from youtube. And Andy would be in a huge position of power over a fan coming to visit them for a special show. Seems like Andy might like to proposition unpaid interns and fans.
Zabka
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by bronson

Pretty gross email "promotion" from Signore a few years back

I don't understand how people can get this far in life and think this is ok. Mind boggling.
Inferno313
Banned
(10-06-2017, 04:15 PM)
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I have said nothing about condemnation here. Outside of a personal admission that I probably won't be able to support their content going forward.

It's clear that a lot of you are more interested in defending an accused man than believing a victimized woman. Almost as if you're concerned this could happen to you at some point.
Bobo Dakes
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(10-06-2017, 04:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zen_Arcade

That's not what he said he'd do though. He said he would automatically believe the woman full stop. If you're automatically believing the woman, it wouldn't matter what the other party has to say because you've already made up your mind. If you automatically believe the woman, you're automatically condemning the other party.

What you're suggesting is basically what people here are saying you should do. Consider that the woman might be telling the truth, but inquire for more evidence before condemning the accused.

In the situatuon posed to you, you literally have zero evidence that your son did anything they're accused of. You have no proof of his participation outside of an accusation, which people have made innacurately before.

So yes, you'll be a bad father because you're baselessly trusting of strangers over your own family and have knee jerk reactions to situations that deserve more thought and consideratuon.

By that logic you're automatically believing the accused if you don't believe the woman.

These aren't people hanging off a cliff asking you to pick one and kick the other down.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:15 PM)

Originally Posted by ElBoxyBrown

The tower is crumbling. Everyone has receipts and isn't afraid to show them now.

Yep, Internet Culture is going through a transitional phase right now.
Westbahnhof
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

I have said nothing about condemnation here. Outside of a personal admission that I probably won't be able to support their content going forward.

It's clear that a lot of you are more interested in defending an accused man than believing a victimized woman. Almost as if you're concerned this could happen to you at some point.

So you would believe the accusation without condemning the accused?
I don't see how that works.

It feels like you only see "believe" and "not believe".
I think inherently it should be neither.

Edit:
Like here:

Originally Posted by Bobo Dakes

By that logic you're automatically believing the accused if you don't believe the woman.

These aren't people hanging off a cliff asking you to pick one and kick the other down.

Is this a semantic issue?
To me, believing the victim is synonymous with condemning the accused.
I'm basically saying "support the accusation, listen to what is said, but don't judge yet".
Are we on the same page, phrasing it differently?
McBryBry
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:18 PM)
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If this is true, fuck him. Absolutely disgusting.

God, with all these youtubers going full milkshake duck, please don't let Kinda Funny or Easy Allies be next...
Volimar
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Metalmarc

Someone posted this

@Mikkavalleau
Iím sorry this happened. He tried to get me to hookup with him before & after my Movie Fight. I wish I still had the texts. That I had proof

Was she a guest or did she work there?

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