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Hyphen
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(10-05-2017, 10:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Pachimari

I feel like never really bought that K was the child. I mean, I could read it on him that he himself might have thought that but I as a viewer never believed that. And so when the reveal came that he was not the special child, it didn't have an effect on me welp.

I also didn't read that ending as K dying, but more him deciding to rest up lol.

Hmm, maybe it was not his "time to die".
Reedirect
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(10-05-2017, 10:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by nOoblet16

I donno about the rest and would like to know myself why rebel people made it look like they all "had the dream" thereby implying that K wasn't special or a copy of Deckard's daughter.

But I can tell you why they wanted him to kill Deckard (and I only know this because I read the wiki, that scene was so obscure in the film), it's because they didn't want Wallace to find out how replicant reproduction works. How would Deckard know about it? I don't know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ....considering Tyrell was long dead before him and Rachel ran away

Yeah, that seems to be the thing. Thanks for clearing it up.

Originally Posted by Plum

Not sure about the first one, but tLuv found K's location from the police tracking system after she killed Claire Underwood.

I thought it had to do something with that scene, but didn't actually notice Luv getting a location out of that. Must've missed it. Thanks!
SomedayTheFire
Member
(10-05-2017, 11:02 PM)
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I'm speechless
SCULLIBUNDO
MEMBER
(10-05-2017, 11:05 PM)
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Movie is getting better in my mind after sleeping on it. Actually looking forward to catching it again.

I'm also officially sick of Jared Leto.
Napoleonthechimp
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(10-05-2017, 11:06 PM)
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"Joe" having his identity as the child stripped from him and then having nothing to live for? I know (sort of) how that feels. But dying on those steps having died for something?

One of the few movies that emotionally resonated with me and left me feeling something hours later.
El Topo
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(10-05-2017, 11:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Napoleonthechimp

"Joe" having his identity as the child stripped from him and then having nothing to live for? I know (sort of) how that feels. But dying on those steps having died for something?

One of the few movies that emotionally resonated with me and left me feeling something hours later.

I loved that they played Tears in the Rain during that scene. It mirrors the first movie in an admittedly obvious, but nonetheless fitting and beautiful way.
NotLiquid
Member
(10-05-2017, 11:13 PM)

Originally Posted by SCULLIBUNDO

Movie is getting better in my mind after sleeping on it. Actually looking forward to catching it again.

I'm also officially sick of Jared Leto.

His off-kilter demeanor was certainly better suited here than in Suicide Squad at least. I didn't expect him to be in the movie so little. Apparently they had intended to cast Bowie as Wallace before he died? I kind of wish we could've seen that work out.
N7.Angel
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(10-05-2017, 11:15 PM)
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I think the ending is pretty clever, if Ryan wants to be in the sequel, he was just resting and if he don’t, then he died on those stairs... XD
Kenzodielocke
Banned
(10-05-2017, 11:17 PM)
This movie makes Blade Runner retrtoactively even better. What an amazing achievement.
Plum
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(10-05-2017, 11:20 PM)
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K wasn't just resting up lol

You don't have a remix of the track literally called "Time to Die" as a character looks at their gunshot wound, puts their head to the ground and stops breathing if you don't want to make sure a character is 100% dead.
nOoblet16
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(10-05-2017, 11:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hyphen

I agree - Once the memory doctor girl tells him that they are real memories, I was waiting for him to ask her if they were actually his own, or if they were implanted, but he doesn't. He just assumes that he's the one and goes off, but then this is kind of saved by the one-eyed replicant later stating that they all want to believe that they are "the one", and K got sucked in.

However, you're confusing me by referring to K as a 'copy'. What do you mean by that? I thought he was implanted with real memories of "the one" and that's it.



Again with the copy!?!? Are you referring to when K discovers the duplicate DNA records? Wasn't this just proof to show that Deckard (or whoever) hid "the one" by making the hunters/Niander Wallace believe that they would be searching for a boy? K discovers (in the records) that a girl died, but a boy is alive with the same DNA, and so then assumes he's the special one, but doesn't realise the actual truth until the one-eyed replicant woman later reveals that the real child is a girl. Atleast that's what I assumed. Was it actually his own DNA that he was looking at? I'm a bit confused here. Refresh my memory on this scene please as I don't even remember what lead up to it.




1 - That's a good question and I don't know. What's clear for me is that she liked K, but I'm not sure what she would get out of keeping tabs on his whereabouts. All it did was enable Luv to find him.

2 - I think she cries because for her it's like watching your potential sibling being killed.

3 - That's all Ridley's fault. I hate the idea of Deckard being a replicant, but thought this was a good way of acknowledging what was hinted in the first movie.

4 - I need Joi in my life.

Copy as in K was the replicant male duplicate of Deckard's daughter. It's implied that he is that duplicate because for one reason Deckard asks K "What does it/me matter to you?" Then there's the other question i.e. why did he have Deckard's daughter's memories if he wasn't the duplicate? But then if K is unique in having her memories then why would the rebels imply they all want to believe they are the ones ? Unless he wasn't unique at all and they all have her memories too but K was the only one bothered to check (which raises the question, if they all liked to believe they were the one because of that memory then why didn't they check for the wooden horse and only K bothered?)

And I've been referring to the doctor as "Deckard's daughter" that's how bad it is, I don't even know her name and she was the McGuffin everyone was after in the story.
Pachimari
Member
(10-05-2017, 11:21 PM)
Fuck, so that was Gaff huh! Didn't pick up on it at all during my watch but something distracted me right at his scene.
SCULLIBUNDO
MEMBER
(10-05-2017, 11:23 PM)
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Soundtrack, whilst not coming close to Vangelis' masterpiece, is growing on me a lot.
El Topo
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(10-05-2017, 11:26 PM)
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Was there any Rutger Hauer easter egg anywhere? Like a picture in the background or something like that?
NotLiquid
Member
(10-05-2017, 11:27 PM)
Oh yeah. I found the soundtrack was alright for the most of the part but I really missed Vangelis' penchant for injecting a lot of melody into the score. Zimmer and Wallfisch managed to nail the discordant atmosphere whenever there was something intense going on, but a few of the subtler moments didn't leave all too much of an impression.
SCULLIBUNDO
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(10-05-2017, 11:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by El Topo

Was there any Rutger Hauer easter egg anywhere? Like a picture in the background or something like that?

Only a short scene where - after Leto's character reveals the twist about Gosling's identity to Gosling, he walks in and says 'Didn't you get the memo?'

Was super out of place.
shaneo632
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(10-05-2017, 11:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Pachimari

Fuck, so that was Gaff huh! Didn't pick up on it at all during my watch but something distracted me right at his scene.

The origami, maybe? hehe.
nOoblet16
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(10-05-2017, 11:29 PM)
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Good thing they didn't kill Deckard, especially after Han Solo dying in Star Wars and Indiana Jones franchise dying in Crystal Skull..

Are there any other famous Harrison Ford roles from back in the day left that old man Harrison can bring back now? Or is he all done?
SCULLIBUNDO
MEMBER
(10-05-2017, 11:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by nOoblet16

Good think they didn't kill Deckard, especially after Han Solo dying in Star Wars and Indiana Jones franchise dying in Crystal Skull..

Are there any other famous Harrison Ford roles from back in the day left that old man Harrison can bring back now? Or is he all done?

Dude... the next Indy is coming 2019.
Spiritual_Chaos
Banned
(10-05-2017, 11:29 PM)

Originally Posted by nOoblet16

Good think they didn't kill Deckard, especially after Han Solo dying in Star Wars and Indiana Jones franchise dying in Crystal Skull..

Are there any other famous Harrison Ford roles from back in the day left that old man Harrison can bring back now? Or is he all done?

What Lies Beneath 2?
nOoblet16
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(10-05-2017, 11:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Pachimari

Fuck, so that was Gaff huh! Didn't pick up on it at all during my watch but something distracted me right at his scene.

You could say it's Cop-tain Adama !

Originally Posted by SCULLIBUNDO

Dude... the next Indy is coming 2019.

Oh I see..nice

Originally Posted by SCULLIBUNDO

Soundtrack, whilst not coming close to Vangelis' masterpiece, is growing on me a lot.

I'm kind of mixed on some soundtracks like the bit where K is chasing Luv and the others escaping with Deckard. Too much wub wub dubsteppy for me. Any of the original mixed tracks were great and I wanted more like them.
Steez
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(10-05-2017, 11:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Elvin Atombender

So, Deckard is human again? How else could he have a child?

Deckard was always human. Scott had this stupid replicant idea and went ahead with it, sabotaging his own movie years later.
Napoleonthechimp
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(10-05-2017, 11:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by nOoblet16

Copy as in K was the replicant male duplicate of Deckard's daughter. It's implied that he is that duplicate because for one reason Deckard asks K "What does it/me matter to you?" Then there's the other question i.e. why did he have Deckard's daughter's memories if he wasn't the duplicate? But then if K is unique in having her memories then why would the rebels imply they all want to believe they are the ones ? Unless he wasn't unique at all and they all have her memories too but K was the only one bothered to check (which raises the question, if they all liked to believe they were the one because of that memory then why didn't they check for the wooden horse and only K bothered?)

And I've been referring to the doctor as "Deckard's daughter" that's how bad it is, I don't even know her name and she was the McGuffin everyone was after in the story.

Regarding the memories: "all the best ones are hers" I interpreted that as she puts a selection of hers in there from time to time. And K was a Blade Runner. The others may not have had the same resources as he did.
Spiritual_Chaos
Banned
(10-05-2017, 11:31 PM)
Anyone who wasn't a fan of this?
SCULLIBUNDO
MEMBER
(10-05-2017, 11:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Steez

Deckard was always human. Scott had this stupid replicant idea and went ahead with it, sabotaging his own movie years later.

There was an IMAX special screening recently where Kermode asked Scott again - who again affirmed that it's clear and obvious that Deckard is a replicant or the film doesn't make sense. Villeneuve - at the same screening, then immediately disagreed with him, saying it's not very clear at all.
MrS
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(10-05-2017, 11:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by nOoblet16

Are there any other famous Harrison Ford roles from back in the day left that old man Harrison can bring back now? Or is he all done?

Richard Kimble
NotLiquid
Member
(10-05-2017, 11:37 PM)
Yeah the movie doesn't commit to answering whether Deckard is a human. You can read a certain ambiguity into several lines but I'm glad they let sleeping dogs lie with this one. Pretty much everyone who worked on Blade Runner except Ridley approached him as being human, including the movie's screenwriter who felt that "asking" the question is interesting but the answer itself is not. This movie follows up on that line of thought pretty well.
El Topo
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(10-05-2017, 11:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by SCULLIBUNDO

Only a short scene where - after Leto's character reveals the twist about Gosling's identity to Gosling, he walks in and says 'Didn't you get the memo?'

Was super out of place.

Didn't notice it since I watched in German. Thanks for the answer.
SCULLIBUNDO
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(10-05-2017, 11:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by El Topo

Didn't notice it since I watched in German. Thanks for the answer.

No problem.
nOoblet16
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(10-05-2017, 11:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Napoleonthechimp

Regarding the memories: "all the best ones are hers" I interpreted that as she puts a selection of hers in there from time to time. And K was a Blade Runner. The others may not have had the same resources as he did.

You can read "All the best ones are hers" in a few ways

1) She puts her own memories from time to time and they are the best.
2) Any memory she makes are the best ones out of all

Both of the above are general and apply to every replicant out there. The third one though is personal to K

3) All of the good memories K has is because of her, and that's only so because K is the special replicant i.e. the duplicate of her. Which is why when Deckard asks why he matters to K he just tries to deflect that question as he doesn't want him to know he is a duplicate.


I'm quite down on K being the duplicate, especially after reading wikipedia as whoever wrote it seemed to have interpreted the same.
Hyphen
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(10-05-2017, 11:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by nOoblet16

Copy as in K was the replicant male copy of Deckard's daughter. Otherwise why did he have Deckard's daughter's memories? And if K is unique in having her memories then why would the rebels imply they all want to believe they are the ones ? Unless he wasn't unique and they all have her memories too but K was the only one bothered to check (which raises the question, if they all liked to believe they were the one because of that memory then why didn't they check for the wooden horse and only K bothered?)

And I've been referring to the doctor as "Deckard's daughter" that's how bad it is, I don't even know her name and she was the McGuffin everyone was after in the story.

He simply had that memory.
As far as I could tell, that wooden horse memory on its own reveals nothing about being a replicant child. He even speaks about the memory to his Lieutenant Joshi. Isn't it only after the whole investigation that everything gets revealed? Which means that amongst the replicant rebels they could all cling to the grand idea that one of them could be the one, but it's not the memory that makes them believe.

Isn't the only reason K goes to check his memory because of the date on the tree, which matches the date on the bottom of the wooden horse in the memory? So the memory on its own is just that... a memory. It's the date that is revelatory to K.

Atleast, that's what I garnered from it.
tonysidaway
Member
(10-05-2017, 11:43 PM)

Originally Posted by El Topo

Was there any Rutger Hauer easter egg anywhere? Like a picture in the background or something like that?

I haven't noticed one yet, but Roy Batty is recalled in spirit, you might say.

Tears in the Rain is in the soundtrack at the end, and Wallace's obsession with angel metaphors echoes Roy Batty's adaptation of a stanza of Blake's:

"Fiery the angels fell; deep thunder rolled around their shores; burning with the fires of Orc." In the original, the angels rise, but Roy adapts the line to refer to their landing on Earth.

The name of Blake's work? America: A Prophecy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_a_Prophecy
Hyphen
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(10-05-2017, 11:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by nOoblet16


3) All of the good memories K has is because of her, and that's only so because K is the special replicant i.e. the duplicate of her. Which is why when Deckard asks why he matters to K he just tries to deflect that question as he doesn't want him to know he is a duplicate.


I'm quite down on K being the duplicate, especially after reading wikipedia as whoever wrote it seemed to have interpreted the same.

So when he saw the duplicate DNA string in his investigation was that his own DNA that he was looking at? Can't believe I missed that.
Steez
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(10-05-2017, 11:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by SCULLIBUNDO

There was an IMAX special screening recently where Kermode asked Scott again - who again affirmed that it's clear and obvious that Deckard is a replicant or the film doesn't make sense. Villeneuve - at the same screening, then immediately disagreed with him, saying it's not very clear at all.

Denis, my dude.

I mean, the final cut clearly leans towards him being a replicant, but it's still kinda sorta ambigious enough to not ruin the movie. Props to Denis for not answering the question in the sequel though. Dude has clearly respect for Scott, even though the replicant idea is 100% asinine. What a class act.




So one thing that's bugging me a bit, and I've seen it brought up on the internet a few times already, is Wallace's motivation.
He mentions that he can "only create so many", but I don't think he ever specified the reason why. Is it supposed to be just a god complex thing? It works for the plot, but seems kinda thin compared to the rest of the film.
thenexus6
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(10-05-2017, 11:53 PM)
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Blade Runner 2049

A sequel to my favourite film of all time. I watched the first trailer or two then went completely dark so I really didn't know anything about the story of this film. I had no idea it was 2 hours 40 minutes either. I was in the cinema feeling like wow this is long!

I really enjoyed it. Awesome visuals, interesting story and ideas.

I thought the soundtrack was good but it felt safe numerous times. I really wonder what Jóhannsson's version would've been. He does fantastic work when paired with Villeneuve. Probably my biggest disappointment. It's already available to stream so I am going to relisten.

Villeneuve and Deakins are my favourite power couple in films right now. They are so good together. The film looked stunning.

So a great sequel, I still favour the original over 2049 though.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
(10-05-2017, 11:54 PM)
The answer doesn't matter. Same situation as with the Inception ending.
nOoblet16
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(10-05-2017, 11:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hyphen

So when he saw the duplicate DNA string in his investigation was that his own DNA that he was looking at? Can't believe I missed that.

He says that one is a replicant duplicate and the other is real during that scene, and then he finds out that the memories he had were real memories which makes him think he is the child and the girl was the duplicate. But from what it seems from some conversations the opposite is the truth.
tonysidaway
Member
(10-05-2017, 11:56 PM)

Originally Posted by Hyphen

He simply had that memory.

That was my interpretation too. He acquired a memory from her in the usual way.

Also, the idea of a woman having a male clone is dodgy. Cloning a female human to create a male isn't possible without importing a Y chromosome from another source. Cloning a male human to create a female can be done by duplicating the X chromosome. Presumably K thought he was the male original and his clone sister had died. I do know, however, that this is thin ice because a lot of SF is written with little regard for science.

He does seem to deduce, finally, that he is not Rick's son.

I mean, a small childish part of me was filled with gleeful anticipation of a "Rick, you are my father" moment. It's as well that the film isn't like that. It's much better.
EVIL
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(10-05-2017, 11:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Steez

He mentions that he can "only create so many", but I don't think he ever specified the reason why. Is it supposed to be just a god complex thing? It works for the plot, but seems kinda thin compared to the rest of the film.

I think he means the physical limitation of creating that many replicants. It seems like its quite a delicate process that you cant just hand off to factories.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
(10-06-2017, 12:00 AM)
I like the clone idea way more since it makes his character even more miserable and gives me stuff to think about.
nOoblet16
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(10-06-2017, 12:00 AM)
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Honestly it doesn't matter of Deckard is a replicant or not. If he is then no one cares, he doesn't even have B level super strength like Pris, let alone A level strength like Roy Batty.

What matters is that Rachel gave birth, which is a miracle in this world.

Originally Posted by Kenzodielocke

I like the clone idea way more since it makes his character even more miserable and gives me stuff to think about.

Yea it makes his story even more tragic, which seems to be what they were going for.
NotLiquid
Member
(10-06-2017, 12:04 AM)

Originally Posted by Steez

So one thing that's bugging me a bit, and I've seen it brought up on the internet a few times already, is Wallace's motivation.
He mentions that he can "only create so many", but I don't think he ever specified the reason why. Is it supposed to be just a god complex thing? It works for the plot, but seems kinda thin compared to the rest of the film.

That's kind of the reason why he's not exactly "important" in the grand scheme of the plot though, and the movie doesn't exactly pretend he's all too engaging either. He's clearly an eccentric with a god complex. He only really has two scenes in the entire movie, and both of them exist to show that he's cause but not circumstance. It's the same reason why the resistance isn't given much thought; you'd expect something of the sort to exist, especially after the first Blade Runner made a point about the value of artificial life, but it's a given that isn't fully interesting to delve into. The state of the world isn't as important as the characters who try to find their own place in it, which is why Luv leans more towards being the de facto antagonist and much more interesting of a character to speculate about.
MrS
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(10-06-2017, 12:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by nOoblet16

What matters is that Rachel gave birth, which is a miracle.

Except it wasn't a miracle because Tyrell designed her that way as a replicant reproduction experiment. The other replicants, i.e. Bautista's character, don't know that and thus think the birth was a miracle.
SomedayTheFire
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(10-06-2017, 12:06 AM)
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I thought Leto put in a good performance, but Wallace was definitely the least fleshed out character in the film. Shame.

Originally Posted by MrS

Except it wasn't a miracle because Tyrell designed her that way. The other replicants don't know that and thus think it was a miracle.

The realisation of this is one of the saddest parts of the film and I glossed over it at the time. It wasn't until I reflected on it that it hit me.
nOoblet16
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(10-06-2017, 12:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by MrS

Except it wasn't a miracle because Tyrell designed her that way. The other replicants don't know that and thus think it was a miracle.

Yea I know, since Wallace says Tyrell discovered replicant reproduction and it was lost with his death. But in the grand scheme of things it'd be considered a miracle nonetheless since Tyrell did something no one thought was possible and even Wallace failed to achieve it.
Violet_0
Banned
(10-06-2017, 12:08 AM)
a better AI love story than a true Blade Runner sequel. The film didn't manage to make me care about the replicants, Deckard or Rachel. I thought the ending was very underwhelming, saw the twist coming (e: that K isn't the child, I didn't know the woman was the daughter)

the K and Joi relationship was the centerpiece of the movie, and they just unceremoniously "killed" their most interesting character

I almost felt like this movie was less about humans and replicants, but humans and incorporeal AIs
RedStep
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(10-06-2017, 12:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by nOoblet16

Good thing they didn't kill Deckard, especially after Han Solo dying in Star Wars and Indiana Jones franchise dying in Crystal Skull..

Are there any other famous Harrison Ford roles from back in the day left that old man Harrison can bring back now? Or is he all done?

Regarding Henry 2: Full Regard
Kenzodielocke
Banned
(10-06-2017, 12:11 AM)
I just hope this time it was consensual and not sexual assault.

„Say fuck me!“
Sickboy007
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(10-06-2017, 12:16 AM)
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I'm very impressed with the movie. I'm not sure if they all mesh with one another, but some of the scenes and set pieces were out of this world.

I also think Villeneuve must be an ass man.
Patchy
Banned
(10-06-2017, 12:20 AM)
I interpreted the replicants telling K that they all had the same dream as him as them wishing to be considered real humans. Being 'born' like one would confirm that they are and they have a soul etc.

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