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Bebpo
trying to mount a comeback
(10-07-2017, 10:15 AM)
Bebpo's Avatar
Hmmm, end of Chapter 2

Really not super thrilled with how they handled Crossbell in this one. Ch.2 had some good/great parts and I enjoyed it, but didn't like it as much as Ch.1. It felt like it climaxed at the tower and the last bit is an afterthought of just some boss fights with not much at stake.

Like when they revealed that "oh hey every major character/npc from Crossbell arc is locked away on the island and that's why they're all missing" it was both kinda lame but at the same time it was sorta acceptable as a setup to "everyone from Crossbell arc is trapped on the Mishi island under the lockdown from evil empire gov who wants them to fade away to irrelevancy rather than kill them or let them roam free" and Randy & Tio are technically being held hostage by the government so they can't do anything currently to help.

...which would have been an acceptable setup to having a really satisfying moment later on in the game or Sen 4 where Rean & crew break into Mishi island and free everyone and then team up.

But no, they're all just let go at the end of the chapter, which makes no sense at all considering the whole gov plan to keep them out of the public's eye and the whole bird cage lock up plan.

Instead by just letting them go it just comes across as Falcom going "oh shit we don't know how to write the Crossbell arc into the Sen story without the Crossbell gang showing up the Sen cast as the best characters, so we'll just come up with a convenient excuse to keep them all locked away off-screen the entire time the Sen cast is in Erebonia and then let them back out once the Sen class leaves" which is extremely unsatisfying and lame for people who've played through the Crossbell series. I think they really shouldn't have even bothered doing a chapter in Crossbell if they weren't ready to do real Sen meets Ao plot. Hell they already did some of that in the epilogue of Sen 2 where Rean and Lloyd faced each other. I mean the game is only 5 chapters long, if you're not ready to do anything with Crossbell, use that time for another new location.

Kinda glad to be out of Crossbell now, when it's new areas with new characters it's a lot harder for Falcom to fuck it up. The sad thing is that in Zero, Falcom seemed to have no problem writing Joshua & Estelle into the main cast/story without overshadowing the main Crossbell arc. They didn't hide Joshua/Estelle away until the end of the game or anything, hell they had most of their time in Zero, the FC chapter. There's no reason why Falcom coudn't have made Lloyd and crew work into the story with Rean and crew during Crossbell, but instead it seems like they took the easy way out to just not deal with it for now which sucks.

The Crossbell chapter's also kinda odd, because I'm not sure who it's aimed at. Most of it feels like just retracing the steps of SSS team. Like "hey, remember when SSS team fought here? Or remember when they went here?" etc... but not doing anything with it, just mentioning it over and over. Is this chapter supposed to be for western Sen players who never played Crossbell to get an info dump on all the stuff SSS team did in the games they didn't play? I mean there's so much of it, I gotta imagine anyone who didn't play Zero/Ao would be like "stop showing me all these flashback photos of people I don't know already!! I don't care about this stuff!", but then if it's supposed to be fanservice for people who played zero/ao it's like "duh, I already know the SSS team fought Duvale here. I played that part. Tell me something new". It's almost like the chapter is supposed to be a refresher for people who played Zero/Ao back in 2009/2010 but forgot what happened and the chapter is devoted to reminding them what happened so they are more caught up for the things to come in Crossbell. It's just a really weird chapter that feels like it won't please most people.

Also I don't really get why Lloyd is buddy buddy with Arios post-Crossbell considering that he was part of the whole conspiracy and team bad guys at the end of Ao...shouldn't he like be in jail?
Last edited by Bebpo; 10-07-2017 at 10:32 AM.
encephalon
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shouta

Ch II stuff

I do agree that some of the districts being cordoned off kinda sucks. It would have been nice to get a full recreation of Crossbell but since the story only involves areas that are necessary for the story, it makes sense.

The end of chapter 2 will make it more clear where things are going but the Orchis Tower roof definitely isn't an empty interaction. Yuna's break down on top of there makes total sense especially in light of her character, her own personal history, and her identity as a citizen of Crossbell. Having Randy as a part of the team and him asking Class VII to do what they can also makes sense as well considering the circumstances and what they were intending on doing with this chapter as a whole.

This story with Crossbell wasn't intended to be dark. It's supposed to be complicated, which it is, but definitely not dark. The average citizen in Crossbell isn't particularly affected and when you consider what's happened before, during, and after Zero/Ao, it's not a surprise. It's even mentioned in the story for that chapter that Crossbell is being treated as part of the Empire and is a core element in their new 8 Cities plan that's being proposed. That actually ends up benefiting the citizens.

One other thing to consider is that it's largely a matter of viewpoint. Sen is a look at the world through the eyes of an Imperial. Considering all that happened during Zero and Ao, many of the citizens of Erebonia thought that it was a good thing that Crossbell was integrated into their country. The tensions with Calvard, the events of Ao and them becoming an independent country ruled by a dictator, are all bad things from their perspective. For a citizen of Crossbell, it's pretty different. That's a huge reason why Juna is a part of the story, in fact. She's there as a representative of Crossbell and to be the voice of that situation.

In any case, this story is really the beginning of the Crossbell march towards independence. This explains the situation after the end of Ao in a pretty clean manner and paves the way for that epilogue now.

Maybe "dark" isn't the right word. Maybe what I wanted was something a little more "somber." I got the sense that the feel of Crossbell was partly influenced by Falcom's need to have a somewhat welcoming atmosphere for Rean to keep the Kiseki feel. Even if the game works out that the impression of him is 60% good - or claims so. I get that it's supposed to be "complicated." But the still art at the end of Ao evoked a bit of a different feel than "oh, well I guess this isn't so bad."

My issue with the scene wasn't so much Yuuna's interjection, but with how it played out. I don't think it makes sense for her to take it out on Rean. It just so happens that it appears more dramatic that way.



Originally Posted by Bebpo

Hmmm, end of Chapter 2

Really not super thrilled with how they handled Crossbell in this one. Ch.2 had some good/great parts and I enjoyed it, but didn't like it as much as Ch.1. It felt like it climaxed at the tower and the last bit is an afterthought of just some boss fights with not much at stake.

Like when they revealed that "oh hey every major character/npc from Crossbell arc is locked away on the island and that's why they're all missing" it was both kinda lame but at the same time it was sorta acceptable as a setup to "everyone from Crossbell arc is trapped on the Mishi island under the lockdown from evil empire gov who wants them to fade away to irrelevancy rather than kill them or let them roam free" and Randy & Tio are technically being held hostage by the government so they can't do anything currently to help.

...which would have been an acceptable setup to having a really satisfying moment later on in the game or Sen 4 where Rean & crew break into Mishi island and free everyone and then team up.

But no, they're all just let go at the end of the chapter, which makes no sense at all considering the whole gov plan to keep them out of the public's eye and the whole bird cage lock up plan.

Instead by just letting them go it just comes across as Falcom going "oh shit we don't know how to write the Crossbell arc into the Sen story without the Crossbell gang showing up the Sen cast as the best characters, so we'll just come up with a convenient excuse to keep them all locked away off-screen the entire time the Sen cast is in Erebonia and then let them back out once the Sen class leaves" which is extremely unsatisfying and lame for people who've played through the Crossbell series. I think they really shouldn't have even bothered doing a chapter in Crossbell if they weren't ready to do real Sen meets Ao plot. Hell they already did some of that in the epilogue of Sen 2 where Rean and Lloyd faced each other. I mean the game is only 5 chapters long, if you're not ready to do anything with Crossbell, use that time for another new location.

Kinda glad to be out of Crossbell now, when it's new areas with new characters it's a lot harder for Falcom to fuck it up. The sad thing is that in Zero, Falcom seemed to have no problem writing Joshua & Estelle into the main cast/story without overshadowing the main Crossbell arc. They didn't hide Joshua/Estelle away until the end of the game or anything, hell they had most of their time in Zero, the FC chapter. There's no reason why Falcom coudn't have made Lloyd and crew work into the story with Rean and crew during Crossbell, but instead it seems like they took the easy way out to just not deal with it for now which sucks.

The Crossbell chapter's also kinda odd, because I'm not sure who it's aimed at. Most of it feels like just retracing the steps of SSS team. Like "hey, remember when SSS team fought here? Or remember when they went here?" etc... but not doing anything with it, just mentioning it over and over. Is this chapter supposed to be for western Sen players who never played Crossbell to get an info dump on all the stuff SSS team did in the games they didn't play? I mean there's so much of it, I gotta imagine anyone who didn't play Zero/Ao would be like "stop showing me all these flashback photos of people I don't know already!! I don't care about this stuff!", but then if it's supposed to be fanservice for people who played zero/ao it's like "duh, I already know the SSS team fought Duvale here. I played that part. Tell me something new". It's almost like the chapter is supposed to be a refresher for people who played Zero/Ao back in 2009/2010 but forgot what happened and the chapter is devoted to reminding them what happened so they are more caught up for the things to come in Crossbell. It's just a really weird chapter that feels like it won't please most people.

Also I don't really get why Lloyd is buddy buddy with Arios post-Crossbell considering that he was part of the whole conspiracy and team bad guys at the end of Ao...shouldn't he like be in jail?

I too just completed Ch. 2 and agree with a lot of what you have to say here.

Particularly the "who is this for!?" flashbacks and the "Wait, what, they've been let go now?" My personal take on the flashbacks was that they were intended for people who haven't played the games, as if Falcom was going "oh, wait you won't get this, here let me tell you" but it doesn't really work and serves to undermine both the chapter and Falcom. Everything would be much better off if Falcom relayed enough information to have the player and characters know what they need to know, while still maintaining a bit of secrecy around it. Keep Zero and Ao a bit mysterious so fans can go back and take it upon themselves to see the significance of everything. I understand that that's not exactly helpful for western fans, but I don't feel like the flashbacks are doing them any favors either. I had the same thoughts about Arios as well.

It does really feel that the portion of Sen II where you play as Lloyd felt more exciting than this chapter, as a Zero/Ao fan. It's interesting to hear people talk about the end of this game and suggest that it will either definitely be Rean or definitely be someone else. It feels like no matter what happens, Falcom will either make a safe choice, or make a choice that it will later undermine the gravity of.


Edit: Oh my god, i just realized i forgot to do the 手配まじゅう. No wonder I got a B.
Last edited by encephalon; 10-07-2017 at 04:22 PM.
Shouta
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(10-07-2017, 07:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bebpo

Hmmm, end of Chapter 2

Like when they revealed that "oh hey every major character/npc from Crossbell arc is locked away on the island and that's why they're all missing" it was both kinda lame but at the same time it was sorta acceptable as a setup to "everyone from Crossbell arc is trapped on the Mishi island under the lockdown from evil empire gov who wants them to fade away to irrelevancy rather than kill them or let them roam free" and Randy & Tio are technically being held hostage by the government so they can't do anything currently to help.

...which would have been an acceptable setup to having a really satisfying moment later on in the game or Sen 4 where Rean & crew break into Mishi island and free everyone and then team up.

I really liked this element of the story, especially as a connective piece to the overall story. It's a really convenient excuse to not have them in the story but it also fits within the narrative and within the Support Section's struggle to liberate Crossbell. It definitely feels like a tribulation they had to go through even if we don't get to see it.

I don't think it'd at all make sense for Rean and Class VII to go break them free then or eventually in Sen 4. Having them become traitors to the Empire works against the entire narrative and just be a lot messier. I can see Estelle and Joshua being a part of it as they're Bracers or Class VII having an indirect impact helping them if they had wanted to though.


Originally Posted by Bebpo

But no, they're all just let go at the end of the chapter, which makes no sense at all considering the whole gov plan to keep them out of the public's eye and the whole bird cage lock up plan.

The implication is that they escaped, as I recall. They almost got out during the course of Chapter 2 but Claire was able to stop them for the time being. Apparently, they finally broke out afterwards and were able to see the train off.

Originally Posted by Bebpo

Instead by just letting them go it just comes across as Falcom going "oh shit we don't know how to write the Crossbell arc into the Sen story without the Crossbell gang showing up the Sen cast as the best characters, so we'll just come up with a convenient excuse to keep them all locked away off-screen the entire time the Sen cast is in Erebonia and then let them back out once the Sen class leaves" which is extremely unsatisfying and lame for people who've played through the Crossbell series. I think they really shouldn't have even bothered doing a chapter in Crossbell if they weren't ready to do real Sen meets Ao plot. Hell they already did some of that in the epilogue of Sen 2 where Rean and Lloyd faced each other. I mean the game is only 5 chapters long, if you're not ready to do anything with Crossbell, use that time for another new location.

Chapter 2 is very much intended to connect things more concretely, I think. Randy points out at the end of the chapter but everything that is happening in the Empire right now has a connection to Crossbell in some manner. There's all the political stuff but then there's the crazy shit like the Vermillion Plomera, Cryptids, and Divine Machines that show up. So the story has to address it at some point and this was the time to do it. It's definitely not a Class VII meets SSS chapter because they definitely would have written it in such a way and I hope that it's something that might be still on the table.

The other intent with the chapter is, IMO, to really show Class VII, new and old, just how complex the situation is in the Empire and to show that they aren't exactly good guys. It's a continuation of chapter 1's ending but they're really getting tastes of the seedier side of their country. It's sort of a necessity considering nothing super bad happens in Sen 1 and Sen 2. It's bringing them down to reality, I guess. Rean doesn't need it as much considering it's somewhat backed into his experience between games but it's good for us players.


Originally Posted by Bebpo

Kinda glad to be out of Crossbell now, when it's new areas with new characters it's a lot harder for Falcom to fuck it up. The sad thing is that in Zero, Falcom seemed to have no problem writing Joshua & Estelle into the main cast/story without overshadowing the main Crossbell arc. They didn't hide Joshua/Estelle away until the end of the game or anything, hell they had most of their time in Zero, the FC chapter. There's no reason why Falcom coudn't have made Lloyd and crew work into the story with Rean and crew during Crossbell, but instead it seems like they took the easy way out to just not deal with it for now which sucks.

I don't think there was a way for them to write in a Support Section/Class VII cross-over at this point in the story. As I pointed out, Class VII are almost entirely Erebonians aside from Juna and they're affiliated with the Erebonian military. So having them team up with the Support Section wouldn't make sense as Lloyd and KeA are wanted by the Empire. The others are being watched as a well. It just becomes a mess without resolving things and changing the entire situation.

That said, I would have liked to have seen some of the folks that didn't need to be locked up. Ellie and Rixia would have been great with the former discussing politics in Crossbell and Rixia introducing us to the theater or some underworld stuff. That's a bit of a missed opportunity for sure but I do get why they did it for everyone other than Tio and Randy.


Originally Posted by Bebpo

Also I don't really get why Lloyd is buddy buddy with Arios post-Crossbell considering that he was part of the whole conspiracy and team bad guys at the end of Ao...shouldn't he like be in jail?

Zero/Ao spoilers here

Really? There's plenty reasons why Arios is working with Lloyd, Post-Ao.

Arios' involvement in the conspiracy was way more noble than the others. As I recall, it was a mix of wanting to help Shizuku recover her eye sight and to also liberate Crossbell from the influences of Calvard and Erebonia. The accident his family had was a conspiracy by them and he was unable to do anything because of the position Crossbell was in.

When you combine that with the fact it wasn't Arios that killed Guy and he was the one that pushed things so the Support Section could save KeA, it's pretty understandable. They have the same goals and they know that Arios wasn't an asshole like Dita or Ian, lol.

As for why he's not in jail, It's probably that the Support Section testified on his behalf but also might be because he went into hiding with Lloyd and KeA after Erebonia took over.


Originally Posted by encephalon

Maybe "dark" isn't the right word. Maybe what I wanted was something a little more "somber." I got the sense that the feel of Crossbell was partly influenced by Falcom's need to have a somewhat welcoming atmosphere for Rean to keep the Kiseki feel. Even if the game works out that the impression of him is 60% good - or claims so. I get that it's supposed to be "complicated." But the still art at the end of Ao evoked a bit of a different feel than "oh, well I guess this isn't so bad."

My issue with the scene wasn't so much Yuuna's interjection, but with how it played out. I don't think it makes sense for her to take it out on Rean. It just so happens that it appears more dramatic that way.

I can definitely understand wanting it to be more somber but a huge part of it is definitely fueled by us players wanting to see how Crossbell is finally liberated, lol. Falcom is really meticulous and wants to make sure everything has a basis and there aren't huge gaps which is why this chapter was here. If we jumped to the liberation of Crossbell without knowing what happened in the intervening years, it just wouldn't be their style.

It also would need set-up as well which this game looks like it's doing. A collapse of the political structures in Erebonia would be the perfect reason why Crossbell was finally able to earn its independence despite the huge size of its occupier.

As for Juna's thing on the roof top, it totally makes sense why she takes it out on Rean. He's a hero of the Empire and in some respects symbolizes them to the average person. Her outburst at him can be seen as her yelling at a hero who's supposed to be helping others yet let this injustice happen. Then you also mix in the fact that Juna actually is grateful to Rean and idolizes him to a certain degree alongside it not actually being so bad for the average citizen, it's a real flurry of emotions that swell up there
Jiraiza
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(10-07-2017, 07:37 PM)
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Chapter 4:
Tita's the best and I loved the exposition on her reason for coming to Erebonia. And the shot of Renne and Tita holding hands making their promise, both older, was fantastic. It's amazing the kind of development Renne has had over the course of these games from SC to all the way to CS3. Makes me really happy she's doing a lot of things to fit in with the Brights, and she's even attending the Jenis Royal Academy! Now they just need to have the inevitable reunion with her actual parents, the Hayworths, and I'll be in a state of eternal bliss. This entire scene made the wait for the eventual Sky reunion harder, though.

And nice to see the Orbal Gear is still as ridiculously strong as it was in the 3rd; maybe even better with the right MQs.
Young Magus
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(10-07-2017, 07:43 PM)
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Got to Ch.4 just now.

Dat Ch.3 ending.
not like this....notlikethis!
Balfour
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(10-07-2017, 07:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Young Magus

Got to Ch.4 just now.

Dat Ch.3 ending.
not like this....notlikethis!

Never trust fat dudes in Kiseki
vkrili
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(10-07-2017, 07:54 PM)
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Wow, you all have a LOT to say about Chapter 2 underneath those bars.
Sinh_Magnus
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(10-07-2017, 08:06 PM)
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Pretty interesting opinions about chapter 2. From someone who beat Zero/Ao this year and have been watching streams of this game I have to say that I don't know how to feel about that chapter, specially after seeing how chapter 1 felt better executed and planned.
Bebpo
trying to mount a comeback
(10-07-2017, 08:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by vkrili

Wow, you all have a LOT to say about Chapter 2 underneath those bars.

Well, for people who've played Zero/Ao, Ch.2 here is when one of "the" big things that Sen 3 was going to be about happens, and the execution of is very divisive.
Bebpo
trying to mount a comeback
(10-07-2017, 08:27 PM)
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And Shouta, Re; Chapter 2

Couple of things:

First, the gov definitely let the SSS team go. There's a scene before Rean leaves the training area to go to the tower where he tells someone "don't worry, once we take care of Ouroboros, they'll probably all be let free", which my reaction at the time was "????????"

Then after you beat the bosses he turns to blond military TMP guy and goes "ok, now that we took care of Ouroboros, you've let them go, right?" and TMP guy goes "yeah, the bird cage has been taken down"

I get the plot explanation for it, that Rufus is mostly concerned about the SSS interfering with their plans at the Tower and taking down Ouroboros and doesn't want the SSS to come in and save the day and be heroes for the city again.

...but I still find it very unrealistic that he'd just let them go after.

.......and I also find it kinda unrealistic and lame that the SSS team would "lose" to Rufus and the gov and get captured there in the first place. Especially with Arios and Sergei and Dudley and stuff. It kinda cheapens and depowers the team more than they should be imo. I liked it better when they were on the run and couldn't be found/stopped as an explanation for them being missing.

But yeah, I agree that even with that plot execution and holding off on SSS team interaction until sometime later in the story of Sen 3+4, it would have been nice to have more people related in the city. It just felt so weird that so many NPCs like even Grace were missing and the city you visit is a ghost town of what Crossbell was in Ao/Zero, partly because OH HEY EVERYONE IS LOCKED ON AN ISLAND >:(

I get it too, ch.2 of a two part game 3+4 is too early for a big crossover that would steal the show and be the high point of the story. But as I mentioned, when the game is only 5 chapters long, maybe they shouldn't have put Crossbell in so early at ch.2 then. I would've been fine with Crossbell being visited in like final chapter where they can go crazy with plot stuff.

I just hope in Sen 4 when they revisit Crossbell (I mean half the town is missing and half the NPC storylines in ch.2 ended on cliffhangers), that they do what they didn't do in this game and pull of a really satisfying crossover narrative that weaves Sen's story and the SSS team's story together. Assuming that when we go back to Crossbell in Sen 4 it will be for the liberation of Crossbell...that's gonna be their one and only chance to do it right, so hopefully they will.

Fwiw, there was a lot I did enjoy about Ch.2. Some of the NPCs who did carryover like the Heiyuu kid or the Baker, revisiting the tower in 3d was cool since it's been an important place for the series (hell Sky FC opened with a tower dungeon in the first quest),
going across some of the fields from Zero/Ao, the Orchus Tower stuff was kinda a neat throwback to the Orchus Tower event in Ao. Plus the good character development stuff with Yuuna and everyone. It was a good chapter, just not the great Crossbell chapter I would have liked to experience in Sen, but hopefully that will be in Sen 4.
Last edited by Bebpo; 10-07-2017 at 08:31 PM.
Shouta
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(10-07-2017, 09:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bebpo

And Shouta, Re; Chapter 2

Couple of things:

First, the gov definitely let the SSS team go. There's a scene before Rean leaves the training area to go to the tower where he tells someone "don't worry, once we take care of Ouroboros, they'll probably all be let free", which my reaction at the time was "????????"

Then after you beat the bosses he turns to blond military TMP guy and goes "ok, now that we took care of Ouroboros, you've let them go, right?" and TMP guy goes "yeah, the bird cage has been taken down"

I get the plot explanation for it, that Rufus is mostly concerned about the SSS interfering with their plans at the Tower and taking down Ouroboros and doesn't want the SSS to come in and save the day and be heroes for the city again.

...but I still find it very unrealistic that he'd just let them go after.

I was referring to Lloyd, and KeA. I guess Arios too since he was accompanying them. They escaped from Mishi Island. The rest of them weren't strictly locked in the place. It's not spelled out in big bold letters but they basically used official channels and tricks to lock them in there rather than forced them. Dudley, Noel, Sergei were all ordered to be on standby while Ellie and her grandfather were charged with dealing with useless dignitaries repeatedly.

Lloyd, KeA, and Arios were in hiding on the island and were kept in place using security checks. Mishi Island only had two ways of getting off, the Ferries or the trains, and they had a lock down on both keeping them in there.For everyone but them, they just had to rescind the orders or pull the useless VIPs out.

Lector points out their strategy when he comes to give Rean his official government orders. Olivier was likely the one that helped get the official channels cleared up so folks could return.

Randy also says 抜けた when he sees them at the end of the chapter while he's in the train. That very much implies Lloyd got through the security checks and out after all the other SSS folks were allowed to return. I mean, it's not like they took him off the wanted list, lol


Originally Posted by Bebpo

.......and I also find it kinda unrealistic and lame that the SSS team would "lose" to Rufus and the gov and get captured there in the first place. Especially with Arios and Sergei and Dudley and stuff. It kinda cheapens and depowers the team more than they should be imo. I liked it better when they were on the run and couldn't be found/stopped as an explanation for them being missing.

I don't think it's unrealistic at all actually. Rufus has Erebonia backing him and has a ton of resources and personnel. Based off the implied strategy used for the Bird Cage plan, he didn't have to force a confrontation with them. He used his position to set up orders for everyone and the like to paralyze them. He didn't actually capture them in the most literal sense.

They also realized they were set-up by Rufus but they couldn't do anything because they were still in government positions or the military. The hidden quest with the Heiyuu points out that Ellie and them were sending letters from Mishi Island to the main land. They just couldn't do it through official channels like the post office because they were being monitored. All the SSS supporters that are still in good standing had to ensure the Erebonians and Rufus led government didn't know they were in on it otherwise they'd be arrested rather than just being watched and restricted through back channels. That works against them if they were marked as traitors.


I fully expect us to revisit this later so we might get something super wild eventually. =o
Last edited by Shouta; 10-07-2017 at 09:28 PM.
encephalon
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(10-08-2017, 01:44 AM)
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I hope we resvisit in Sen IV, but I wonder if it won't come up in a Calvard storyline. And maybe a liberation plot could happen then.
Balfour
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(10-08-2017, 01:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by encephalon

I hope we resvisit in Sen IV, but I wonder if it won't come up in a Calvard storyline. And maybe a liberation plot could happen then.

If I remember, Sen 3/4 's story is currently the same year as it is liberated. It would be really weird if it doesn't happen by the end of Sen 4.
AledyHauser
Junior Member
(10-08-2017, 02:02 AM)
Guess I might have missed it but
Chapter 2 quest spoiler

Where was the strap sold at? I went to every shop and couldn't find it
preta
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(10-08-2017, 02:04 AM)
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Ch. 3, field day 1 The whole premise of that day felt really weird and off, I thought it was blatantly obvious from the very beginning (literally their first appearance) that the group was the Northern Jaegers and it felt really weird that Rean wouldn't even recognize them considering he was in the Northern War.
Shouta
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(10-08-2017, 02:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by AledyHauser

Guess I might have missed it but
Chapter 2 quest spoiler

Where was the strap sold at? I went to every shop and couldn't find it

Exchange shop in the East district. The item you need to buy is just out the door at the woman shop owner.

Originally Posted by preta

Ch. 3, field day 1 The whole premise of that day felt really weird and off, I thought it was blatantly obvious from the very beginning (literally their first appearance) that the group was the Northern Jaegers and it felt really weird that Rean wouldn't even recognize them considering he was in the Northern War.

I just got done here but It's not as obvious for Rean because of the circumstances. Most of the Northern Jaegers were integrated into the Empire's Military and these guys had entirely different new weapons and gear with different colors and the like. Considering how many Jaeger groups are out there, their initial supposition about it being an entirely new group of them would make sense and Rean was also out cold during most of the Northern Campaign due to what happened with his power.
encephalon
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(10-08-2017, 03:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Balfour

If I remember, Sen 3/4 's story is currently the same year as it is liberated. It would be really weird if it doesn't happen by the end of Sen 4.

Wait, what? We know it's liberated?
Balfour
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(10-08-2017, 03:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by encephalon

Wait, what? We know it's liberated?

Pretty sure it was stated long time ago before sen no kiseki that the Imperial Occupation lasted until S. 1207, which it is 1206 right now? so only like half a year left at the least. So i was wrong initially, but it is close anyway. The ending of the crosbell arc says Crossbell went through 2 years of occupation, meaning around January 1207 it was liberated. I see no reason considering what Sen 4 is leading to why it would not be liberated at least at the end of the game. It is so close and so tired to the current events that there is no reason not to go over it. At worst though it would be a footnote after Sen 4 ends
Last edited by Balfour; 10-08-2017 at 04:00 AM.
encephalon
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(10-08-2017, 04:14 AM)
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Man, I'm really mad at myself pausing the game upon receiving the 手配魔獣 orders, starting the game the next day and going "Oh yeah, what do I need to do?" "Right, continue with the story." :x

Originally Posted by Balfour

Pretty sure it was stated long time ago before sen no kiseki that the Imperial Occupation lasted until S. 1207, which it is 1206 right now? so only like half a year left at the least. So i was wrong initially, but it is close anyway. The ending of the crosbell arc says Crossbell went through 2 years of occupation, meaning around January 1207 it was liberated. I see no reason considering what Sen 4 is leading to why it would not be liberated at least at the end of the game. It is so close and so tired to the current events that there is no reason not to go over it. At worst though it would be a footnote after Sen 4 ends

How did I miss this

One more thing: I don't want this thread to turn into an endless debate about Ch. 2, but

The thing about SSS and Ch. 2 is that the game actually puts a great amount of focus on them. It doesn't really matter if it's not SSS teams up with VII組. The reason why Yuuna was able to deal with the scenario up until the tower was because she had SSS to believe in. Even if they were split up, Lloyd and company (Rixia?) were on the run. Finding out they were captured was earth shattering for her. It was a huge moment not only for her, but for the series. Yuuna is the voice of fans of Zero/Ao.

Relegating their release (or escape?) to some text betrays the impact of the moment on the tower, which felt like one of the most important developments of the chapter up to that point. After all, when we got to Crossbell we find that 幻獣 have appeared, but Lloydたち had defeated them. They were "around." Maybe some people enjoyed the moment on the train, where you see Lloyd and he makes a gesture to Rean. But personally, I can't help but feel that what the chapter needed was for us to see Lloyd escaping. Even something small would be fine, without them having to render Michelam itself. Perhaps a misty shot of the lake, a slow pan up to a small boat, and it's lloyd and co. escaping, as he carries a determined look on his face.

Coming from Zero/Ao and CS II I don't think the game is in need of a Lloyd and Rean team up scenario. Rather, recognition that Lloyd has his own perspective and his own priorities that do not align with those of Rean and VII組. I also think it's a mistake on the part of Falcom to assume that just because 怪しい shit was going on in Crossbell, that Lloyd needed an excuse to be held back otherwise he would have been there to stop it. It's okay. Lloyd doesn't have to be a super human who is the sole protector of Crossbell even while living in a sort of exile (I'm assuming Lloyd's home base is in one of the surrounding towns?)
Last edited by encephalon; 10-08-2017 at 05:18 AM.
Bebpo
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(10-08-2017, 04:43 AM)
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Yeah, did you somehow miss the ending credits of Ao? There was a 2 year time skip epilogue at the end that describes the Zemuria timeline through about Dec 1206 or Jan 1207. Sen 4 should get us there (finally, after four games of back track) and may go even further past it for all we know. After all no one expected Ao to jump cover 2 years in a 30 min epilogue.
encephalon
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(10-08-2017, 05:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bebpo

Yeah, did you somehow miss the ending credits of Ao? There was a 2 year time skip epilogue at the end that describes the Zemuria timeline through about Dec 1206 or Jan 1207. Sen 4 should get us there (finally, after four games of back track) and may go even further past it for all we know. After all no one expected Ao to jump cover 2 years in a 30 min epilogue.

I think I may have just forgotten that the epilogue includes Lloyd speaking from the future, and claims that "Crossbell undergoes imperial occupation for two years."

Or I was just dumb and didn't catch the explicitly clear Japanese that occupation lasted for a set duration of time? With a clear end? Lol
Last edited by encephalon; 10-08-2017 at 05:23 AM.
hotsoup
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(10-08-2017, 06:36 AM)
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Man the last dungeon in chapter 3 was long.
Hype level increased 100% when Unfathomed Force started playing. Too bad its not the Evolution version.
Thoraxes
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(10-08-2017, 06:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by encephalon

I think I may have just forgotten that the epilogue includes Lloyd speaking from the future, and claims that "Crossbell undergoes imperial occupation for two years."

Or I was just dumb and didn't catch the explicitly clear Japanese that occupation lasted for a set duration of time? With a clear end? Lol

It was something like (End of Ao Spoilers) "What followed the Empire's occupation were the darkest two years of our lives/that Crossbell has ever seen." or something to that extent. Then there's supplementary material that backs up both that and another thing that happens around 1207.

We're still shackled to what Ao set up, all these years later.
Last edited by Thoraxes; 10-08-2017 at 06:50 AM.
Bebpo
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(10-08-2017, 07:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by encephalon

I think I may have just forgotten that the epilogue includes Lloyd speaking from the future, and claims that "Crossbell undergoes imperial occupation for two years."

Or I was just dumb and didn't catch the explicitly clear Japanese that occupation lasted for a set duration of time? With a clear end? Lol

There was also A key art showing all the characters celebrating a liberated Crossbell and looking a few years older at the end of the Ao epilogue
encephalon
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(10-08-2017, 07:43 AM)
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Ordis looks great and somehow the water looks better, but there are some framerate drops.

Originally Posted by Thoraxes

It was something like (End of Ao Spoilers) "What followed the Empire's occupation were the darkest two years of our lives/that Crossbell has ever seen." or something to that extent. Then there's supplementary material that backs up both that and another thing that happens around 1207.

We're still shackled to what Ao set up, all these years later.

Yeah, I went back and looked at the ending. I wish there was something to bridge the tone in the Ao epilogue and the brighter tone we see in Sen III. Interesting that we went from an image of Randy and Noel drafting up plans in a dimly lit hide out to "Randy is employed by the empire to keep the SSS separated, and though he knew such motives were at play, he couldn't really refuse."

Edit: "Under its imperial occupation, Crossbell enters a period of great hardship that would last two years."

Drama CD?


Originally Posted by Bebpo

There was also A key art showing all the characters celebrating a liberated Crossbell and looking a few years older at the end of the Ao epilogue

I didn't interpret this as a literal thing that happened. Just a shot of the cast. - And stupidly didn't pick up on the significance of the Crossbell flag flying instead of the imperial one.
Last edited by encephalon; 10-08-2017 at 08:01 AM.
Jiraiza
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(10-08-2017, 10:14 AM)
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Chapter 4:

Loved the class VII reunion. I liked how it turned into a discussion between level-headed adults instead of being lead by Rean only. And the development on Millium's part is great. Though judging by the trailer where she links up with Claire, Lecter, and Rufus, her declaration that says she'll prioritize class VII over everything else is really sad in retrospect. Really interested in the context of that part in the trailer and I may be getting there soon. I'm also liking how the game is pushing Jusis into the secondary role of taking charge; very cool.

Still, all these sidequests are killing me because I want to continue with the story so bad, but I have to do everything!
theofficefan99
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(10-08-2017, 11:04 AM)
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Any anime or CG cutscenes this time 'round?
preta
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(10-08-2017, 01:43 PM)
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End of chapter 3

Hoooooooooly shit George no Angelica nooooooooooooooooo

And I knew I was right to suspect Lugeman(?)
encephalon
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(10-08-2017, 02:51 PM)
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Some of the character designs look fine on paper, but whatever 13 year old boy modeled them went to far. Sara and emma in particular.

Angelica's shitck is super creepy this time. Maybe it always was.

Edit: for the sake of positivity, i like Claire's outfit .
Last edited by encephalon; 10-08-2017 at 04:51 PM.
Balfour
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(10-08-2017, 03:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by preta

End of chapter 3


And I knew I was right to suspect Lugeman(?)

who?
Stuart444
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(10-08-2017, 04:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by theofficefan99

Any anime or CG cutscenes this time 'round?

There's a kind of one in Chapter 2 at the end, don't expect any action or anything, it's just some characters being shown.
Thoraxes
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(10-08-2017, 04:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by encephalon

Yeah, I went back and looked at the ending. I wish there was something to bridge the tone in the Ao epilogue and the brighter tone we see in Sen III. Interesting that we went from an image of Randy and Noel drafting up plans in a dimly lit hide out to "Randy is employed by the empire to keep the SSS separated, and though he knew such motives were at play, he couldn't really refuse."

Edit: "Under its imperial occupation, Crossbell enters a period of great hardship that would last two years."

Drama CD?

The Crossbell Archive, iirc. It been a while since i've look at its contents though.
encephalon
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(10-08-2017, 05:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Thoraxes

The Crossbell Archive, iirc. It been a while since i've look at its contents though.

Oooh, i might pick this up.
Korigama
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(10-08-2017, 06:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by encephalon

Some of the character designs look fine on paper, but whatever 13 year old boy modeled them went to far. Sara and emma in particular.

Angelica's shitck is super creepy this time. Maybe it always was.

Edit: for the sake of positivity, i like Claire's outfit .

I haven't gotten a good look at Sara's this time around, but Emma's looked fine to me. Seemed rather modest, so kind of an odd choice to complain about specifically.

And yes, Angelica was always like that (Fie even called her on it all the way back in CS I).
Shouta
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(10-08-2017, 09:56 PM)
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Sara and Emma's models are definitely way too top heavy while really slim elsewhere. It looks weird as a result. Actually, it's kind of the same for everyone except Fie, Altina, and Millium, lol.

Every guy in this is so pretty too. Even George is pretty, It's weeeeird.
Korigama
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(10-08-2017, 10:05 PM)
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Ah, that.

It is the case that CS III has an exceptionally good-looking cast, even by JRPG standards. George looks like he's lost weight, too.

I'm still way behind on the stream, but having a look through the VODs. Also, thanks for the lower res options (I should be able to follow along again now).
encephalon
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(10-09-2017, 01:06 AM)
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It's the way they're modeled.
Young Magus
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(10-09-2017, 03:50 PM)
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Credits rolled, Title Screen changed.
I only got one thing to say:
(vague af spoilers)
Ya'll REALLY missed the ball on not making the title OT be "His smile and optimism gone" cuz JEESUS fuck thats the best way to sum up this ending
Jiraiza
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(10-09-2017, 08:39 PM)
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Chapter 4, Morning of Day 3:
Shipping Intensifies: The Chapter. Falcom clearly knows which pairings and combos are the best. Tita/Agate, Randy/Tio, Olivier/Schera (somewhere in the capital), Jusis/Millium, Machias/Patiry, Elliot/Gaius/Linde/Mint, Laura/Fie, Alan/Bridget, Kenneth/Annabelle, Makarov/Mary, and so forth. I knew you still had it in you, Falcom.

Gotta admit, Olivier being so open and secretive about his relationship with Schera is pretty cute. There's actually small snippets here and there about how Schera meets with Olivier frequently throughout the game if you pay attention. Good stuff.

On Rean's mom, you can definitely see the resemblance. Damn shame about what happened. Though it begs the question, where does all this ogre power and Dreichels lineage come from? I'll know soon, I suppose.
hellishimp
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(10-09-2017, 09:49 PM)
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This game is proving to be more troublesome with no JP knowledge than the other games I finished (DQXI, P5, Y0, etc) but then again, its so text heavy and side-quest heavy, that perhaps that's the reason I am experiencing difficulties.

I had a question about some of the stores in the game. I see there is an option on some of them to what I assume is invest coin into them? Is it in order for them to carry better equipment? I don't recall that option in the earlier entries.
Shouta
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(10-10-2017, 06:47 AM)
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End of Chapter 3....oh boy.

I was not expecting the very last thing to happen at all, holy shit. I hope it doesn't stick. ;_; I can finally what's going on with these characters thanks to some of the choice dialogue towards the end. That fight with the Arianhodr was wild until I cheesed the shit out of it with Brave Seeds and Sara's Brave Order, lol.
Jiraiza
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(10-10-2017, 08:50 AM)
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Just went through a majority of the final bonding events:
So the only romanceable girls are Alisa, Laura, and Emma with Alisa the only one getting an explicit kiss. Everyone else is platonic. There's also no restrictions from romancing all three at the same item from what I can tell, which is pretty trashy of Falcom to do. I think my favorite ones are Altina, Millium, and Jusis, though I still need to check the other guys. Who knew that the platonic ones would end up being the better ones, huh?

Overall, the bonding events improved a lot over the past 4 games, at least up until the final bonding events. Positively speaking, Falcom did a better job around this time making the events feel less isolated from the rest of the world and put in the effort to involve other characters. Most of the events did technically become therapy sessions with Doctor Rean, but at least it felt more grounded since he was a teacher with some experience instead of a busybody "go-home club" student council waterboy. They also refrained from getting on Persona levels of shame by making every girl romanceable so they get some brownie points there.

On the other hand, most of the final bonding events kind of sucked. They suffer from "isolated world where no one else exists" syndrome, and the whole "call only one person for an event" like they did in Ao at MWL is absolute balls and completely unnatural given the composition of the characters throughout the city. I think the only set choice were Alfin and Elise for whatever reason. I mean, it makes no sense to call only Jusis when Millium was hanging with him (to cheer him up by dragging him around to stand to stand, no less) and vice versa. They should've been a pair in the final event, and their actual final bonding scenes wouldn't have been an issue with both of them present especially since the game seems to be steering Millium's development towards Jusis more than Rean this time around. Gaius and Elliot are another pair that would've been fine as a set, too. I still need to get further, but I'm not expecting there to be much of an impact on the narrative based on who you decided to romance or whatever, because it'll be probably be a few insignificant lines, anyway. Even if there was, it'll just get handwaved in the Calvard games as if it never happened, so it's the most pointless choice ever.

Another disappointing thing is how underused most of the cast are for these events. While they did improve with including more characters on average per event, I feel like they could've had a bit more fun with them in the same way the Tales games have fun with their cast in the many small skits throughout the game. And last complaint, Rean being unvoiced in literally everything. You get a nice intimate moment in the bonding event, and Rean is still unvoiced just like the past two games!

It's nice to see Tita, Tio, and Aurelia were spared from the evil hands of the bonding system, so props to Falcom for that (though technically Tio is a victim of the Zero/Ao bonding system, but I'll forgive them for the Randy and Tio interactions alone in this game). In any case, there's still plenty of room for them improve the bonding system. My biggest wish for this system is to be able to see similar intimate scenes between other characters that Rean gets with each of the characters. Though strictly speaking, the Tita and Agate, the Tio and Randy, and the Millium and Jusis moments technically kind of count, except they were woven into the main narrative which made them feel a lot more potent and essential to defining the characters than if they were just optional bonding scenes.

Bonding system complaints aside, main game's still good tho.
Last edited by Jiraiza; 10-10-2017 at 08:54 AM.
encephalon
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(10-10-2017, 11:11 AM)
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Ch. 3 spoilers

After the fight with Arianrhod and my group asked a bunch of great questions, I thought "oh so this is where they answer at least one of them and this is what people must have been on about. But no lol.

Then the graveyard scene happens. I guess when you have a cast of over 100 characters, it gets easier to pull off "it's the person you would least suspect!"

Also, of course Falcom ruins the Arianrhod / Imperial past story with a character that refers to herself as a "loli." God damn it. Also, the Eusis Millium cheerleading in this thread is super creepy, wtf. Agate Tita is bad enough.


Ch 4.

赫奕たるヘイムダル ... There are two 赤s in one kanji! Falcom and its word choice. How many times will this happen to the capitol over the course of the series, I wonder?

It looks like they might have lifted Heimdallr largely unchanged from Sen I & II? Am I crazy?


Originally Posted by Shouta

End of Chapter 3....oh boy.

I was not expecting the very last thing to happen at all, holy shit. I hope it doesn't stick. ;_; I can finally what's going on with these characters thanks to some of the choice dialogue towards the end. That fight with the Arianhodr was wild until I cheesed the shit out of it with Brave Seeds and Sara's Brave Order, lol.

She wiped me with her S-Break and I had to resort to my reserves. I was about to have Eusis do his shield craft (can't remember the name), but he wasn't in range of anyone, so I thought oh I'll move him and do it the next turn. Nope.
Last edited by encephalon; 10-10-2017 at 12:10 PM.
PK Gaming
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(10-10-2017, 12:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jiraiza

Just went through a majority of the final bonding events:
So the only romanceable girls are Alisa, Laura, and Emma with Alisa the only one getting an explicit kiss. Everyone else is platonic. There's also no restrictions from romancing all three at the same item from what I can tell, which is pretty trashy of Falcom to do. I think my favorite ones are Altina, Millium, and Jusis, though I still need to check the other guys. Who knew that the platonic ones would end up being the better ones, huh?



Sort of wish I didn't see this post at all
Jiraiza
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(10-10-2017, 07:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by PK Gaming



Sort of wish I didn't see this post at all

Haha. Someone will have to confirm if there are any consequences later since I'm just sticking with the "canon" girl. At least they dialed it down to 3 girls. I'll just cross my fingers they reduce that number even more to 1 or 0 with the Calvard games.
Last edited by Jiraiza; 10-10-2017 at 07:36 PM.
encephalon
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(10-12-2017, 12:34 PM)
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I pulled into Heimdallr. So when does Sen III go full FFVIII and do Garden Battles? : p
Com Truise
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(10-12-2017, 08:43 PM)
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Finished the game just now and oh boy, shit hit the fan pretty hard, the whole room is covered in feces.

Killing off the most popular character in the Kiseki series. OK SURE WHY NOT. And I hope the next game goes into more detail concerning Osborn's motives because right now, I'm really disappointed that a very interesting character turned out to be a rather pedestrian villain.

And could these games stop trying to elicit sympathy for Claire already. I had to audibly groan during the Crossbell chapter when Rean was all "how could you people make a nice person like Claire handle the imprisonment of Lloyd and friends!" Dude, a "nice person" would have told Osborn to go fuck himself years ago, instead she's leading the charge on every fucked up plan he comes up with. Responsibility for one's own actions means nothing to you, huh?
PK Gaming
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(10-12-2017, 09:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Com Truise

Finished the game just now and oh boy, shit hit the fan pretty hard, the whole room is covered in feces.

Killing off the most popular character in the Kiseki series. OK SURE WHY NOT. And I hope the next game goes into more detail concerning Osborn's motives because right now, I'm really disappointed that a very interesting character turned out to be a rather pedestrian villain.

And could these games stop trying to elicit sympathy for Claire already. I had to audibly groan during the Crossbell chapter when Rean was all "how could you people make a nice person like Claire handle the imprisonment of Lloyd and friends!" Dude, a "nice person" would have told Osborn to go fuck himself years ago, instead she's leading the charge on every fucked up plan he comes up with. Responsibility for one's own actions means nothing to you, huh?

Endgame CS3 spoilers:

Olivier's "death" is pretty much a formality. He's coming back. I'm not 80% sure or 90% sure. I'm 100% sure he'll make a triumphant return.

Re: Claire

Osborne offered her support when she was completely alone after her parents died. He heard her out, and gave her a path to follow in life. When literally nobody else could bother, he was the one who believed in here and told her to met out justice. She is very clearly indebted to him, and there is absolutely no way a person like her would ever tell Osborne to fuck off, no matter how sketchy his plans got. Rean's concern is misguided, but it's clear he's concerned for Claire due to how close they are. His frustration is understandable.

Anyway, I think Claire will eventually leave Osborne's faction for good in Sen IV.
Com Truise
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(10-12-2017, 09:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by PK Gaming

Endgame CS3 spoilers:

Olivier's "death" is pretty much a formality. He's coming back. I'm not 80% sure or 90% sure. I'm 100% sure he'll make a triumphant return.

Re: Claire

Osborne offered her support when she was completely alone after her parents died. He heard her out, and gave her a path to follow in life. When literally nobody else could bother, he was the one who believed in here and told her to met out justice. She is very clearly indebted to him, and there is absolutely no way a person like her would ever tell Osborne to fuck off, no matter how sketchy his plans got. Rean's concern is misguided, but it's clear he's concerned for Claire due to how close they are. His frustration is understandable.

Anyway, I think Claire will eventually leave Osborne's faction for good in Sen IV.

I know she won't tell him him off because she feels indebted, the point is that I'd rather the game stop trying to pretend she's a damsel in distress or something. Ultimately, it's her choice to be a piece of shit. And the fact that she constantly gets absolved by everyone (including Yuuna who basically had a breakdown over the situation) is just really irritating.
preta
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(10-13-2017, 04:55 AM)
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Cross-posting from the community thread - Sen III OST is up in Falcom's catalog. Out 11/15, 4 discs spread across 2 volumes (sold separately or as a single package), 90 tracks. There are some spoilers in track titles, so be warned - I didn't look much at volume 2's, but I can confirm there's an early-game (but still surprising) one in volume 1 if you can read katakana.

This also confirms now that the first PV theme is called STEP AHEAD and the regular battle theme is called Brave Steel.
Last edited by preta; 10-13-2017 at 06:11 AM.

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