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TakeItSlowDude
Member
(09-27-2017, 06:48 AM)
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An Interesting but expensive product recently reviewed by PCPerspective, a HDMI cable with an inline ASIC to do some form of analytic/edge-detection antialiasing with minimal amounts of latency. Could be be useful when playing older X360 and PS3 games lacking AA solutions. Price is crazy at $120 USD for their shortest cable and it requires a usb port to power the ASIC. The AA results look close to SMAA solutions, better than FXAA, as seen in the test shots below:





Unfortunately the review is not very in depth, would have been nice to see more test cases. Specifically the results when the inline AA is applied over a previously applied analytic solution.
Neptonic
Member
(09-27-2017, 06:54 AM)
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huh this is super interesting
thebigmachine
Member
(09-27-2017, 07:00 AM)
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I want to see more reviews of this thing. Very intrigued.
Vash63
Member
(09-27-2017, 07:02 AM)
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Ew postprocess AA forced by a cable? That's gotta blur.
Douche McBaggins The 3rd
Junior Member
(09-27-2017, 07:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by Vash63

Ew postprocess AA forced by a cable? That's gotta blur.

What's going to hurt worse, the blur or the lag it will introduce? Still, waiting for more opinions.
Jaguar Victory
Member
(09-27-2017, 07:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by Douche McBaggins The 3rd

What's going to hurt worse, the blur or the lag it will introduce? Still, waiting for more opinions.

They say no additional input lag.... I'm going to need receipts though.
Beer Monkey
Member
(09-27-2017, 07:07 AM)
Sub millisecond latency is impressive. It must work on each horizontal line one at a time. Which of course is extremely limiting.

This also exemplifies how scaling can easily be accomplished in a fraction of a frame, as some newer TV sets already do.
Madao
Member
(09-27-2017, 07:08 AM)
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"minimal amounts of latency" usually translate to massive input lag that makes the "improvements" not worth it.

gonna need some local experts to check this one.
Mozendo
Member
(09-27-2017, 07:09 AM)
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Wow this seems great, definitely will consider grabbing one when I get more money since terrible AA support is one of the reasons why I dislike console gaming so much.
TheDanger
Member
(09-27-2017, 07:13 AM)
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paging Digital Foundry.
deoee
Member
(09-27-2017, 07:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheDanger

paging Digital Foundry.

Yeah they should do some pixel counting :]
Chacranajxy
I paid good money for this Dynex!
(09-27-2017, 07:16 AM)
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Snake oil? Is that you?


I don't buy it.
Zeel
Junior Member
(09-27-2017, 07:18 AM)
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dark10x, are you on it already? :D
Coonce
Member
(09-27-2017, 07:20 AM)
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their marketing bullshots look way too good to be true -

TakeItSlowDude
Member
(09-27-2017, 07:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by Beer Monkey

Sub millisecond latency is impressive. It must work on each horizontal line one at a time. Which of course is extremely limiting.

This also exemplifies how scaling can easily be accomplished in a fraction of a frame, as some newer TV sets already do.

Sort of what I was thinking, the latency is low enough that I don't think they are holding the entire image and then applying AA. Though I would think they are taking n-number of horizontal lines at a time.

Modern TV scalers and SoCs more than powerful and fast enough to handle most post processing AA solutions with minimal latency. A more ideal, yet possible, solution would be to have a TV with post processing AA options that could be turned on and off with a button/menu-option.
OmegaDL50
Member
(09-27-2017, 07:28 AM)
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While this seems interesting. Most console ports usually have some form of built-in AA. There are some exceptions I suppose.

HDMI itself isn't doing anything particularly special. Since it's a digital signal, it's either on / off. The Cable either works or it doesn't. With that said, this means the AA function exists solely inside the ASIC chip.

Also apparently the Cable itself does not work unless the source actually has power via the USB. So this brings up some very pointed questions. Also let's assume the ASIC must use a one-size-fits-all approach since it's being powered by the TV's USB this means it's AA is applied at all times. This means it has no way to determine what content is being viewed on screen (remember HDMI is digital, there is no logic outside of the ASIC itself)

This means this Cable is only good on a game by game basis, which diminishes its value somewhat. For example playing game with already an decent built-in AA solution would not make sense to use this because you would be applying AA on top of AA which potentially reduces the image quality.

I think I'll leave the rest for someone like Durante to provide better input. So far I'm not entirely convinced.
daxy
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(09-27-2017, 07:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Coonce

their marketing bullshots look way too good to be true -

Yeah, it kinda looks like there are artifacts from edge sharpening being applied in the 'mCable' shots. Unless that's another feature of this thing...
OmegaDL50
Member
(09-27-2017, 07:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by daxy

Yeah, it kinda looks like there are artifacts from edge sharpening being applied in the 'mCable' shots. Unless that's another feature of this thing...

That's the thing that bothers me the most.

The Cable is plugged into your TV from the source device.

Say for example the source device is your PS4. How does the ASIC communicate with the PS4 to produce the desired AA effect to happen on screen. Also who is to say the PS4 even understands the signal the ASIC is sending, which is why I firmly believe this thing is simply doing a one-size-fits-all approach to applying AA.

It can't really communicate with the PS4's graphics chip because it's not built into PS4 hardware for that level of functionality. So the ASIC is handling everything externally after the image is outputted from the console. In that case everything is post-process which means it's just doing a basic AA effect over and above whatever it's being displayed on screen regardless of whatever content shown, which isn't always necessary.
vazel
Member
(09-27-2017, 07:47 AM)
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This is neat. I remember someone on this forum using a capture card + SMAA to apply AA to console games. I would like to see this feature built into TVs and receivers.
TakeItSlowDude
Member
(09-27-2017, 07:48 AM)
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It is just applying a post-AA algorithm, it will have similar results as injecting FXAA, MLAA, or SMAA (non-temporal) into a game. There is no reason for it the communicate with the source (outside of the handshake and HDCP), the HDMI signal contains the resolution and the video stream as specified by the HDMI protocol so the ASIC knows on what data to apply the algorithm.
Last edited by TakeItSlowDude; 09-27-2017 at 08:11 AM.
Aztechnology
Member
(09-27-2017, 07:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheDanger

paging Digital Foundry.

I'll page Durante first.
sirap
Member
(09-27-2017, 08:08 AM)
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Interesting...

If this actually works I might just get one for my Switch.
Luigiv
Member
(09-27-2017, 08:11 AM)
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So a HDMI cable that intentionally blurs the whole image. Isn't that the opposite of what a good AV cable is suppose to do?
Yohane
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(09-27-2017, 08:19 AM)
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Does it introduce any lag?
Durante
Come on down to Durante's drivethru PC port fixes. 15 minutes or less. Yelp: ★★★★★

Fixed Souls, Deadly Premonition, Lightning Returns, Umihara Kawase, Symphonia, Little King's Story, PhD, likes mimosas.
(09-27-2017, 08:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by vazel

This is neat. I remember someone on this forum using a capture card + SMAA to apply AA to console games. I would like to see this feature built into TVs and receivers.

That was me.

And yeah, I see nothing inherently infeasible about this.
Aztechnology
Member
(09-27-2017, 09:00 AM)
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What's the speed on the cable? 10.2, 18Gbps?

Edit: Seems like a high speed cable. Durante. What are the chances this could be used with VR?
Last edited by Aztechnology; 09-27-2017 at 09:02 AM.
Everlya_Apocryha
Banned
(09-27-2017, 09:17 AM)
am i reading this right? Hardware level post processing image anti-aliasing.............ON THE HDMI Cable?

U wut m8?
Durante
Come on down to Durante's drivethru PC port fixes. 15 minutes or less. Yelp: ★★★★★

Fixed Souls, Deadly Premonition, Lightning Returns, Umihara Kawase, Symphonia, Little King's Story, PhD, likes mimosas.
(09-27-2017, 09:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by Aztechnology

What's the speed on the cable? 10.2, 18Gbps?

Edit: Seems like a high speed cable. Durante. What are the chances this could be used with VR?

It's exceedingly unlikely it could be used, but even if it could, there would be absolutely no point.

Post-process AA is basically useless in VR (and detrimental in some ways).
SeanTSC
Member
(09-27-2017, 09:29 AM)
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Aside from the obvious questions of Input Lag and degrading IQ on games that already have AA solutions:

I wonder if this thing plays nice with Receivers. Big mark against it if it doesn't.
Hasney
Member
(09-27-2017, 09:31 AM)
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Linus Tech Tips have a video coming, its on their premium service and they were impressed too. Also tested the input lag and it was still really good.
Samanosuke Akechi
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(09-27-2017, 09:34 AM)
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Drain You
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(09-27-2017, 09:38 AM)
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Regardless of the real world feasibility and use of this its cool. I've really been out of the PC game for years so just seeing something like this is pretty awesome in my eyes. Striving for something better is never a bad thing.
Mr. Pointy
Member
(09-27-2017, 09:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by sirap

Interesting...

If this actually works I might just get one for my Switch.

You know I was thinking the same thing. This would clean up every single 1st party Nintendo game.

I'm not really planning to get one, but I'd like to see the comparisons.
_Rob_
Member
(09-27-2017, 09:46 AM)
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This seems a little too good to be true to me...
kami_sama
Member
(09-27-2017, 09:48 AM)
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Well, if it really does what it seems to be doing, it's a great investment for last-generation and Switch games.
Backfoggen
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(09-27-2017, 09:49 AM)
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Can this properly detect edges on sub native material too?
Truant
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(09-27-2017, 09:50 AM)
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I prefer a softer and more "blurry" image to a sharp and aliased image any day, if I had to chose.
Lonely1
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(09-27-2017, 09:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Durante

That was me.

And yeah, I see nothing inherently infeasible about this.

You should have patented!
Sanjay
Member
(09-27-2017, 09:56 AM)
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This has to be bullshit right.
warheat
Member
(09-27-2017, 10:00 AM)
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don't cheap out your HDMI cables, get this instead.
mehrmantrout
Member
(09-27-2017, 10:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by warheat

don't cheap out your HDMI cables, get this instead.

Lol, cables and snake oil
Drain You
Member
(09-27-2017, 10:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by warheat

don't cheap out your HDMI cables, get this instead.

Nice contribution.
daninthemix
Member
(09-27-2017, 10:03 AM)
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Very cool for console games without configurable AA options.

Very cool indeed.
pottuvoi
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(09-27-2017, 10:09 AM)
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Their AA solution seems to miss quite bit of the edges.
Also a strong sharpening filter does exact opposite of what good AA should do for all the small aliasing bits.

If there would be some way to adjust settings or modes, this could be quite nice.

Originally Posted by mehrmantrout

Lol, cables and snake oil

Selling HDMI cables within a can filled with snake oil..
Certainly has a potential to be the next big thing.
Last edited by pottuvoi; 09-27-2017 at 10:13 AM.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
(09-27-2017, 10:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by warheat

don't cheap out your HDMI cables, get this instead.

The reviews lol
Hasney
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(09-27-2017, 10:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by Sanjay

This has to be bullshit right.

Nah, it has the processing chips on the cable and it has a power cable separate to power it. It's doing more than a standard HDMI cable, it just has the processing chips in it.
Durante
Come on down to Durante's drivethru PC port fixes. 15 minutes or less. Yelp: ★★★★★

Fixed Souls, Deadly Premonition, Lightning Returns, Umihara Kawase, Symphonia, Little King's Story, PhD, likes mimosas.
(09-27-2017, 10:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by pottuvoi

Their AA solution seems to miss quite bit of the edges.
Also a strong sharpening filter does exact opposite of what good AA should do for all the small aliasing bits.

If there would be some way to adjust settings or modes, this could be quite nice.

http://ptbi.metaclassofnil.com/
Adjustable AA methods and sharpening / processing, slightly more involved setup than just a cable :P
Waikis
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(09-27-2017, 10:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Durante

http://ptbi.metaclassofnil.com/
Adjustable AA methods and sharpening / processing, slightly more involved setup than just a cable :P

Does it support 4k video mode?
Durante
Come on down to Durante's drivethru PC port fixes. 15 minutes or less. Yelp: ★★★★★

Fixed Souls, Deadly Premonition, Lightning Returns, Umihara Kawase, Symphonia, Little King's Story, PhD, likes mimosas.
(09-27-2017, 10:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Waikis

Does it support 4k video mode?

No, because the supported hardware only gets 30 Hz at 4k.
Mr. Pointy
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(09-27-2017, 10:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Waikis

Does it support 4k video mode?

Not according to the official site.

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