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Lady Gaia
Member
(12-09-2016, 04:43 AM)
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It's great to have an active thread to cover the current state of the art and upcoming technology. Under "other terms to know" you should probably cover the various flavors of HDR: Dolby Vision vs. HDR10, and the importance of meeting UHD Premium requirements to the HDR experience. I'd also recommend tackling the subject of Wide Color Gamut with a little detail on Rec.709 vs. DCI P3 vs. Rec.2020.
holygeesus
Member
(12-09-2016, 05:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by The Beard

It's not silly. That's exactly what I heard about plasmas before I bought mine. If I played 5 straight hours of BF1 on my VT60, I'd see the HUD for at least a day afterwards, maybe 2. I'll give OLED a chance to see if it's better than plasma in that regard, but from what I've heard from various owners so far, I'm not expecting it to be much better.

I'm talking about IR not burn in btw. I'm really anal about PQ when I'm watching movies. I don't want to see anything on the screen that shouldn't be there. I don't want to see a faint ghost image of #Discoverychanel in the upper right hand corner against a shot of a blue sky, it completely takes me out of what I'm watching.

You should believe more what us owners are telling you rather than myths you've heard elsewhere.

You could have a 10 hour gaming session with a burning white HUD on the screen - as soon as you turn off the TV, it runs a 15 minute compensation cycle that removes all traces. The only way you will notice IR at all, is if you have a 10 hour gaming session, then turn over immediately and watch hockey or something, as you will see the HUD. Ditto if you watch a 2.35:1 movie, then immediately switch to a full screen affair - you will see feint lines on light colours. Again, turn the set off for 15 minutes and they disappear.

You will not burn-in these sets, unless you run them 24/7 with a static image on screen, and never turn them off.
The_Spaniard
Netmarble
(12-09-2016, 06:49 AM)
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When I do finally get an OLED after CES, would the Halo 3 Calibration disk be any good to set it up?
Izuna
Member
(12-09-2016, 06:52 AM)
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If you're getting burn ins on your plasma, either it's super old or your contrast is set far too high.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
(12-09-2016, 07:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by holygeesus

You should believe more what us owners are telling you rather than myths you've heard elsewhere.

You could have a 10 hour gaming session with a burning white HUD on the screen - as soon as you turn off the TV, it runs a 15 minute compensation cycle that removes all traces. The only way you will notice IR at all, is if you have a 10 hour gaming session, then turn over immediately and watch hockey or something, as you will see the HUD. Ditto if you watch a 2.35:1 movie, then immediately switch to a full screen affair - you will see feint lines on light colours. Again, turn the set off for 15 minutes and they disappear.

You will not burn-in these sets, unless you run them 24/7 with a static image on screen, and never turn them off.

But it's an issue none the less, you still have to think about it to a certain degree, there just isn't and never will be an holy grail TV.

A good FALD is easily an excellent alternative, I chose one over OLED, massive brightness gains and still amazing blacks, even though it's not at the pixel level.

Have to say though, that IPS prototype by my Panny boys sounds very interesting.
Deepo
Member
(12-09-2016, 07:39 AM)
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Reading on AVSforums that The Witness in HDR can cause massive IR on the OLED sets, due to the puzzles staying on screen for so long. I haven't experienced IR on my LG Oled yet, but it sounds like it could be an issue in some scenarios.
Tarin02543
Member
(12-09-2016, 07:40 AM)
I follow OLED news daily:

http://www.oled-info.com/

Sony and Panasonic are working on true RGB OLED panels through a joint venture called JOLED.

4K prototypes will be printed in 2017 for the medical field, commercial applications are expected 2019/2020.

I won't be buying an OLED until then.
Beer Monkey
Member
(12-09-2016, 07:56 AM)

Originally Posted by DOT DASH DOT

But it's an issue none the less, you still have to think about it to a certain degree, there just isn't and never will be an holy grail TV.

If OLED can get down to two frames of lag, that's "good enough" for me. Less than two frames would be amazing. Hell, I might sell some of my CRTs.
Geneijin
He'll Never Forget The
Flower We Saw That Day
(12-09-2016, 08:13 AM)
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Replying to a post from the old thread:

Originally Posted by III-V

True but no CMS or multi-point gamma control on the Sony :(

My 3 year old $1200 projector has all this.

Wait, are you sure? I remember calibrating my XBR49X800D with 10-pt white balance controls unless multi-point gamma control is something else?
Theonik
Banned
(12-09-2016, 08:32 AM)
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This sounds more like a nightmare tbh.
EvB
Member
(12-09-2016, 09:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by Cobalt Izuna

If you're getting burn ins on your plasma, either it's super old or your contrast is set far too high.

I've got an Xbox logo burned into my ST50 from the old dashboard
Afrikan
Member
(12-09-2016, 09:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Tarin02543

I follow OLED news daily:

http://www.oled-info.com/

Sony and Panasonic are working on true RGB OLED panels through a joint venture called JOLED.

4K prototypes will be printed in 2017 for the medical field, commercial applications are expected 2019/2020.

I won't be buying an OLED until then.

That's 3-4 years from now.

If you're interested in OLED.. why not enjoy it until then?
luffeN
Member
(12-09-2016, 09:40 AM)
Since I currently have a Benq W1070 I was looking into real 4K HDR projectors and man ... these things are going to be insanely expensive :(

Originally Posted by Tarin02543

I follow OLED news daily:

http://www.oled-info.com/

Sony and Panasonic are working on true RGB OLED panels through a joint venture called JOLED.

4K prototypes will be printed in 2017 for the medical field, commercial applications are expected 2019/2020.

I won't be buying an OLED until then.

If you are going to wait until 2020 then I suggest you start saving now for you new TV :D
KillGore
Member
(12-09-2016, 10:21 AM)
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Let's be honest. This thread will mostly be about OLEDs. So good.
Izuna
Member
(12-09-2016, 10:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by EvB

I've got an Xbox logo burned into my ST50 from the old dashboard

That's a collectors item.
Unknown Soldier
Banned
(12-09-2016, 10:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by KillGore

Let's be honest. This thread will mostly be about OLEDs. So good.

Unlikely. Only one manufacturer makes OLEDs, they have some pretty distinct limitations, they still cost a lot more than LCDs, and it's not clear what kind of future they will have since the fundamental issues of burn-in and uneven pixel wear are unsolved and now Panasonic are saying they have invented the perfect IPS panel.

This is a nice thread though, even though the future still looks a lot like the past decade-plus of LCD dominating everything in the post-CRT era.

Originally Posted by Cobalt Izuna

If you're getting burn ins on your plasma, either it's super old or your contrast is set far too high.

I got burn-in on a calibrated 65VT60. That was not a cheap TV. I'll never own a large-panel TV which has uneven pixel wear ever again as long as I live. This is why I'm passing on OLEDs until they reach CRT-like pixel life, or LCDs continue to advance until they are indistiguishable from OLEDs anyways.
Last edited by Unknown Soldier; 12-09-2016 at 10:33 AM.
Beer Monkey
Member
(12-09-2016, 11:07 AM)

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

I got burn-in on a calibrated 65VT60. That was not a cheap TV. I'll never own a large-panel TV which has uneven pixel wear ever again as long as I live. This is why I'm passing on OLEDs until they reach CRT-like pixel life, or LCDs continue to advance until they are indistiguishable from OLEDs anyways.

I've never had any image retention or burn-in on my 2008 Kuro even after 278 hours of Modern Warfare 2 with maybe 20 hours of other usage during that period. Panasonic never reached the potential of the tech.
Backfoggen
Member
(12-09-2016, 11:30 AM)
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*lights a candle or whatever in hopes of good 2017 OLEDs with proper HDR tone mapping, good near black performance and improved motion handling*
killertofu
Member
(12-09-2016, 11:34 AM)
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ST50 going strong but I'm moving across the country next year and can't bring it along. What do :(
Mascot
Member
(12-09-2016, 11:36 AM)
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My 50" Pioneer plasma from 2006 is still going strong and performing wonderfully, but fully expecting to go home after writing this to find it dead.
KillGore
Member
(12-09-2016, 11:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Unlikely. Only one manufacturer makes OLEDs, they have some pretty distinct limitations, they still cost a lot more than LCDs, and it's not clear what kind of future they will have since the fundamental issues of burn-in and uneven pixel wear are unsolved and now Panasonic are saying they have invented the perfect IPS panel.

This is a nice thread though, even though the future still looks a lot like the past decade-plus of LCD dominating everything in the post-CRT era.

Have you seen the previous thread? Majority of the conversation was about OLEDs. At least the last couple of pages

Also, if rumors are to be believed. LG won't be the only one showing off their OLED tv this CES. I believe Philips also released an OLED tv. Unless some new tech gets released next year. OLEDs will keep being the talk of the town, good and bad. Like we're doing right now.

Edit: anyways, I was mostly joking
Last edited by KillGore; 12-09-2016 at 11:52 AM.
Kudo
Member
(12-09-2016, 11:56 AM)
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Our Panasonic Plasma has really bad burn-in too, from subtitles to channel logos.
I was thinking of getting Samsung 55" KS8000 for that 4K HDR (if I can find a good deal), looking at the reviews it should be pretty good choice for gaming? Anyone have it, does it pair well with PS4?
GreekWolf
Member
(12-09-2016, 12:01 PM)

Originally Posted by luffeN

Since I currently have a Benq W1070 I was looking into real 4K HDR projectors and man ... these things are going to be insanely expensive :(



If you are going to wait until 2020 then I suggest you start saving now for you new TV :D

You and me both. My W1070 has been so good, I've decided to wait till BenQ comes out with a 4K successor before I upgrade projectors again. In fact, they have one debuting in 2017 but it might be good while before it's affordable.

After a LOT of research, I picked up a 65 inch KS8000 for my bedroom and have been very pleased. It's the closest thing I've found that can provide the same eye-popping colors and sharpness of a DLP projector. I've been playing Rise of the Tomb Raider on this TV and it looks amazing.
Kyoufu
(12-09-2016, 12:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by KillGore

Let's be honest. This thread will mostly be about OLEDs. So good.

Nah. There will be a range of affordable LCD TVs with good HDR performance at CES that will be recommended to those who don't want to or can't spend money on OLED TVs. I can see a lot of people jumping into 4K HDR with those.

CES 2017, folks!
Clefargle
Member
(12-09-2016, 12:26 PM)
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Yo, if I want a nice HDCRTV or it's equivalent with ZERO lag for Smash and other fightan games, would the Mitsubishi DLP Diamond series be any good? Do the most recent DLPs have any input lag issues relative to CRT?
Peltz
Member
(12-09-2016, 12:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Backfoggen

*lights a candle or whatever in hopes of good 2017 OLEDs with proper HDR tone mapping, good near black performance and improved motion handling*

Amen.
Peltz
Member
(12-09-2016, 12:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Unlikely. Only one manufacturer makes OLEDs, they have some pretty distinct limitations, they still cost a lot more than LCDs, and it's not clear what kind of future they will have since the fundamental issues of burn-in and uneven pixel wear are unsolved and now Panasonic are saying they have invented the perfect IPS panel.

This is a nice thread though, even though the future still looks a lot like the past decade-plus of LCD dominating everything in the post-CRT era.



I got burn-in on a calibrated 65VT60. That was not a cheap TV. I'll never own a large-panel TV which has uneven pixel wear ever again as long as I live. This is why I'm passing on OLEDs until they reach CRT-like pixel life, or LCDs continue to advance until they are indistiguishable from OLEDs anyways.

Unknown soldier be waiting like:

Omlagus
Member
(12-09-2016, 01:00 PM)
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OP you might want to add a link to http://displaywars.com/ to the section on screen sizing.

It gives a nice visual comparison of different sizes.

pottuvoi
Member
(12-09-2016, 01:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by SliChillax

I wish variable refresh rate would become a standard thing. Consoles would benefit so much from that

Indeed.
BumRush
Member
(12-09-2016, 01:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lady Gaia

It's great to have an active thread to cover the current state of the art and upcoming technology. Under "other terms to know" you should probably cover the various flavors of HDR: Dolby Vision vs. HDR10, and the importance of meeting UHD Premium requirements to the HDR experience. I'd also recommend tackling the subject of Wide Color Gamut with a little detail on Rec.709 vs. DCI P3 vs. Rec.2020.

Great suggestions. Could you PM me if you have any good content / links
eighty(one)
Member
(12-09-2016, 01:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Unlikely. Only one manufacturer makes OLEDs, they have some pretty distinct limitations, they still cost a lot more than LCDs, and it's not clear what kind of future they will have since the fundamental issues of burn-in and uneven pixel wear are unsolved and now Panasonic are saying they have invented the perfect IPS panel.

This is a nice thread though, even though the future still looks a lot like the past decade-plus of LCD dominating everything in the post-CRT era.



I got burn-in on a calibrated 65VT60. That was not a cheap TV. I'll never own a large-panel TV which has uneven pixel wear ever again as long as I live. This is why I'm passing on OLEDs until they reach CRT-like pixel life, or LCDs continue to advance until they are indistiguishable from OLEDs anyways.

I think the 2016 OLED will serve well.

LG used a different technology with OLED, beginning with the 2016 sets. On older OLED, blue degrations from the subpixels would occur faster. Their 2015 used that type.

In 2016, they shifted to all white or white subpoxels that use colored filters, which makes color shift and degradation near impossible before 100,000 hours + they used new tools to make retention and burn in, things of the past.

My C6 is completely perfect, no Mura effect or vignetting, streaks or retention. When the screen is displaying black, I literally cannot tell tv is on - even in a pitch dark room.

You cannot compare the 2015 OLED with 2016.

They're completely different.
Last edited by eighty(one); 12-09-2016 at 01:34 PM.
Lexxism
Member
(12-09-2016, 01:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kudo

Our Panasonic Plasma has really bad burn-in too, from subtitles to channel logos.
I was thinking of getting Samsung 55" KS8000 for that 4K HDR (if I can find a good deal), looking at the reviews it should be pretty good choice for gaming? Anyone have it, does it pair well with PS4?

Yeah, we got a lot of good impression on that TV in gaf. IMO, it's the second best tv behind the lg oled this year.
enfieldvball
Member
(12-09-2016, 01:37 PM)
Just picked up a Panasonic Plasma 60VT60
Until we get 4K HDR OLEDs that are actually affordable I'm sticking with Plasma even with FALD LEDs
Croatoan
Member
(12-09-2016, 01:44 PM)
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TVs need Gsync that works with consoles ;)
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
(12-09-2016, 01:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kyoufu

Thread title made me chuckle. Well done.

I recommend anyone looking to get a 4K TV by Christmas to just hold out a little longer and see what CES has to offer in January. Newer and better TVs of all price ranges should be available in the next 3-6 months.

Originally Posted by jstevenson

and closeout prices on excellent 2016 LG OLEDs too!

(also, be sure to ask us about where you're buying from, lots of good deals online but some shady places. Cleveland Plasma is your best friend [but no return policy!])

Real talk while I don't own an OLED this is what I did last year. We got a 2015 Samsung in 2016 for mad cheap relative to the MSRP. Also allowed me to go from a 50" to a 55" and stay within my alloted budget.
Weevilone
Member
(12-09-2016, 01:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by enfieldvball

Just picked up a Panasonic Plasma 60VT60
Until we get 4K HDR OLEDs that are actually affordable I'm sticking with Plasma even with FALD LEDs

What is considered affordable? The 55B6P was as low as $1500 and the 55E6P was $1800. I think you can get the 55E6P for about $2k now.
luffeN
Member
(12-09-2016, 01:51 PM)

Originally Posted by GreekWolf

You and me both. My W1070 has been so good, I've decided to wait till BenQ comes out with a 4K successor before I upgrade projectors again. In fact, they have one debuting in 2017 but it might be good while before it's affordable.

The Benq W11000 costs about 7000 Euro and does not have 3D :( There will be some short throw projectors with 4K but they will probably even more expensive.

I don't want to buy a 4K HDR TV because technically/legally I have to then pay 25 Euro a month for our national broadcast service even if I am never giong to watch TV ...
NYR
Member
(12-09-2016, 02:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tarin02543

I follow OLED news daily:

http://www.oled-info.com/

Sony and Panasonic are working on true RGB OLED panels through a joint venture called JOLED.

4K prototypes will be printed in 2017 for the medical field, commercial applications are expected 2019/2020.

I won't be buying an OLED until then.

By 2019 something new will be on the horizon to replace OLED. You are in a pointless, endless loop. Just buy.
BumRush
Member
(12-09-2016, 02:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by NYR

By 2019 something new will be on the horizon to replace OLED. You are in a pointless, endless loop. Just buy.

Agreed. We'll be talking OLED / QLED on 8K panels, and then 2-3 years from that there'll be something new. Meanwhile 99% of cable TV will have just adopted 1080P as standard.
HStallion
Now what's the next step in your master plan?
(12-09-2016, 02:29 PM)
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I'm really curious to see what we get from Sony at CES. They seem to be fully off the OLED bandwagon right now and instead pushing their Master Back Lighting system that is found in the Z9's. Its pretty damn impressive and I remember the demo units they had last year were pushing 2000 nits and could get so bright you had to turn away from the screen. That and I'm hoping they realize they have a giant gaming console division and don't cheap out on the chipset and other things this time around so we can get decent 4K HDR for gaming.
thuway
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(12-09-2016, 02:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tarin02543

I follow OLED news daily:

http://www.oled-info.com/

Sony and Panasonic are working on true RGB OLED panels through a joint venture called JOLED.

4K prototypes will be printed in 2017 for the medical field, commercial applications are expected 2019/2020.

I won't be buying an OLED until then.

LG is rumored to be introducing wallpaper thing OLED displays this year and are almost certainly going to be the talk of CES 2017. You can continue waiting until 2020- and also add three years to your age- technology- and every thing in between. Or you can be sensible and buy something middle of the road at a decent price to be replaced later on.
Kyoufu
(12-09-2016, 02:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by HStallion

I'm really curious to see what we get from Sony at CES. They seem to be fully off the OLED bandwagon right now and instead pushing their Master Back Lighting system that is found in the Z9's. Its pretty damn impressive and I remember the demo units they had last year were pushing 2000 nits and could get so bright you had to turn away from the screen. That and I'm hoping they realize they have a giant gaming console division and don't cheap out on the chipset and other things this time around so we can get decent 4K HDR for gaming.

They're going to be introducing their 4K HDR OLED TV at CES.

Also, having to turn away from your screen because it's too bright is not a good thing lol.
Hammer24
Member
(12-09-2016, 02:40 PM)
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Repost from the old thread:

These are the professionally calibrated settings for a C6. Let me preface them with a couple of points:

- these are my professionally calibrated settings - as every setup is individual, they might not be perfect for your setup, but should provide a very good starting point
- they were done on a C6, so they should also work very good on a E6 that shares the same processor, and give at least a starting point for a B6
- this calibration was done before the latest FW update, so it might be necessary to lower the value for OLED light in HDR mode depending on your individual setup
- when calibrating, please calibrate the three modes in the order given below:

ISF Light
Customise
OLED Light 60
Contrast 80
Brightness 50
H Sharpness 0
V Sharpness 0
Color 50
Tint 0
Expert Controls
Dynamic Contrast Off
Super Resolution Off
Color Gamut Normal
Edge Enhancer Off
Color Filter Off
Gamma 2.2
White Balance
Color Temperature Warm2
Method 2 Points
Pattern Outer
Point High R-1 G0 B-2
Point Low R0 G0 B0
Color Management System
Red S0 T0 L-4
Green S0 T0 L1
Blue S0 T0 L0
Cyan S0 T0 L1
Magenta S0 T-2 L-2
Yellow S0 T1 L0
Picture Options
Noise Reduction Off
MPEG Noise Reduction Off
Black Level Low
(Real Cinema On)
Motion Eye Care Off
TruMotion Off


ISF Dark
Customise
OLED Light 40
Contrast 80
Brightness 50
H Sharpness 0
V Sharpness 0
Color 50
Tint 0
Expert Controls
Dynamic Contrast Off
Super Resolution Off
Color Gamut Normal
Edge Enhancer Off
Color Filter Off
Gamma 2.4
White Balance
Color Temperature Warm2
Method 2 Points
Pattern Outer
Point High R4 G0 B0
Point Low R0 G0 B0
Color Management System
Red S-2 T0 L-2
Green S0 T0 L2
Blue S0 T0 L2
Cyan S0 T-2 L2
Magenta S0 T-2 L-1
Yellow S0 T3 L1
Picture Options
Noise Reduction Off
MPEG Noise Reduction Off
Black Level Low
(Real Cinema On)
Motion Eye Care Off
TruMotion Off

HDR
(don't forget to go to: General --> HDMI Ultra HD Deep Color; On)
Picture Mode Settings HDR Standard User
Customise
OLED Light 100
Contrast 100
Brightness 50
Sharpness 0
Color 50
Tint 0
Expert Controls
Dynamic Contrast Off
Super Resolution Off
Color Gamut Wide
Edge Enhancer Off
Color Filter Off
Gamma 2.2
White Balance don't change
Color Management System don't change
Picture Options
Noise Reduction Off
MPEG Noise Reduction Off
Black Level Low
(Real Cinema On)
Motion Eye Care Off
TruMotion Off
Dave_6
Member
(12-09-2016, 02:43 PM)
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I believe my 6020 Kuro actually has some mild burn in on the lower left from the Destiny HUD. I've got 30+ days (yes, days. No shame lol) of game time so that could explain it. Back in June I moved my PS4 back to my PC room and hooked it up to my monitor so I haven't played Destiny on my Kuro since. Whatever I see on the screen during all white and 'light' scenes doesn't really seem to be going away though. It isn't a big deal though since the TV is old (bought it in 2008) and I'm looking to purchase an OLED after CES anyways.
HStallion
Now what's the next step in your master plan?
(12-09-2016, 02:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kyoufu

They're going to be introducing their 4K HDR OLED TV at CES.

Also, having to turn away from your screen because it's too bright is not a good thing lol.

I thought they were actively moving away from it for now?
KaoticBlaze
Member
(12-09-2016, 02:57 PM)
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Why is the "warm2" option always the go to when calibrating the oleds? For some reason I cant stand watching it on that setting, it just looks like a really dim yellowish filter. Am I the only one who uses the "cool" setting? Looks much more vibrant to me.
Lexxism
Member
(12-09-2016, 02:59 PM)
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Speaking of warm 2, I can't get to that option (white balance) since it is greyed out. I'll post my settings later.
Weevilone
Member
(12-09-2016, 03:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by KaoticBlaze

Why is the "warm2" option always the go to when calibrating the oleds? For some reason I cant stand watching it on that setting, it just looks like a really dim yellowish filter. Am I the only one who uses the "cool" setting? Looks much more vibrant to me.

If vibrant is what you want, go for it. A warmer color temperature is simply more accurate, however. It sounds like you are simply used to blue whites.
Kyoufu
(12-09-2016, 03:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by HStallion

I thought they were actively moving away from it for now?

Nope.

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1481099273
HStallion
Now what's the next step in your master plan?
(12-09-2016, 03:26 PM)
HStallion's Avatar

Originally Posted by Kyoufu

Nope.

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1481099273

That's interesting. I wonder if they will keep the LED series with the Master Back Lighting as their high end sets or the OLEDs? I wonder if they're getting their OLED panels from LG?

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