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lightskintwin
Banned
(07-23-2016, 01:45 PM)

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

That whole subplot makes Batman in the ending extra awful. First he ignores the girl he just had an intimate time, then he shares a good laugh with the guy who just paralyzed her a couple of hours ago.

Unbelievable. Well, i never liked the killing hoje that much anyway. Hope they never try to make an animated movie of arkham asylum though.

Agreed. I posted in the other thread before making this thread:

Originally Posted by lightskintwin

I just finished watching it, and this was exactly what I thought. i couldn't believe the characterization of Batgirl.

Tonally the ending feels so out of place, and literally laughs in the face of those brutalized in order to share a bro moment with a killer/rapist.

Sanjuro
Inside Man
(07-23-2016, 01:46 PM)
Sanjuro's Avatar

Originally Posted by DeathyBoy

Moore's disowned it.

And even if he hadn't, without making Barbara an actual character he's done the story a disservice. Because her victimisation eliminates a vital part of the story for the piece to work. She's just there to drive the plot along, and I think deep down Moore knows he fucked up there.

Yeah, that's what I meant calling you Alan Moore hah.

I don't disagree with you. Ultimately, I still believe it's an above average Batman story and one of the more notable ones with a large demographic of fans.
Vibranium
Banned
(07-23-2016, 01:46 PM)

Originally Posted by ElBoxyBrown

I'd argue TKJ is for Joker fans only. Your reading it for the Joker, not anyone else.

You're totally right. Joker is the main attraction for the entire story, he's the only reason it is held so high.
SJRB
Member
(07-23-2016, 01:50 PM)
SJRB's Avatar
The bit about Bruce having sex with Barbara is a joke, right?


....right?
Sblargh
Banned
(07-23-2016, 01:53 PM)
Sblargh's Avatar

Originally Posted by SJRB

The bit about Bruce having sex with Barbara is a joke, right?


....right?

You might say it is the joke that kills DC's animation department.
Sanjuro
Inside Man
(07-23-2016, 01:53 PM)
Sanjuro's Avatar

Originally Posted by SJRB

The bit about Bruce having sex with Barbara is a joke, right?


....right?

Someone needs to ask Alan Moore if Bats eats out.
lightskintwin
Banned
(07-23-2016, 01:53 PM)
Here's the thing, The Killing Joke could work as a film, but it should be very dark. Tonally it should feel like The Green Room. Like a superhero horror film. You can't be afraid of criticism and actually go there, in order to make people truly feel the type of trauma inflicted upon Barbara, Her Father, and Batman as we did in the comic.

You feel none of it here.
Kid Ying
Member
(07-23-2016, 01:54 PM)

Originally Posted by Sanjuro

Yeah, that's what I meant calling you Alan Moore hah.

I don't disagree with you. Ultimately, I still believe it's an above average Batman story and one of the more notable ones with a large demographic of fans.

It's a fun story. I think it's good, but i also agree that it's not the top 10 Batman stories to me. It's very shallow overall and feels almost surreal. People complain about Barbara characterization, but apart from the Joker, everyone in this book feels like someone else (and even Joker was not like that at the time, but it ended up sticking).

The movie looks like it tried to bring more to the table though. Barbara on the comic is just a mean to an end, where in the movie they seem to give her an additional layer (even though it's awful). If they made it work, perhaps the results would be even more potent, but as where it is, it looks like a fanfic.
Yabberwocky
Member
(07-23-2016, 01:55 PM)
Yabberwocky's Avatar
Dear lord, that's depressing. Babs' treatment in The Killing Joke was always pretty shit, but this is triple-swirl-with-a-cherry-on-top creepy bullshit. The fuck?
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
(07-23-2016, 01:56 PM)
Rebel Leader's Avatar

Originally Posted by SJRB

The bit about Bruce having sex with Barbara is a joke, right?


....right?

I don't know man
.. I Don't know
...
Sblargh
Banned
(07-23-2016, 02:01 PM)
Sblargh's Avatar

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

It's a fun story. I think it's good, but i also agree that it's not the top 10 Batman stories to me. It's very shallow overall and feels almost surreal. People complain about Barbara characterization, but apart from the Joker, everyone in this book feels like someone else (and even Joker was not like that at the time, but it ended up sticking).

The movie looks like it tried to bring more to the table though. Barbara on the comic is just a mean to an end, where in the movie they seem to give her an additional layer (even though it's awful). If they made it work, perhaps the results would be even more potent, but as where it is, it looks like a fanfic.

I think what makes TKJ a very good short story is precisely that anyone who isn't the Joker is just an object, including Batman. It is a very tight script. It's about how a monster rationalizes to himself that he isn't truly evil, he just had a bad day and went insane and the story, overall, takes the side of the monster, it makes us want to understand his point of view as close as possible without endorsing it. Even Batman and Gordon just show up so you can remember that the Joker is supposed to be a villain and even then it ends with Batman kind-of-almost-of-sorta sympathizing with him.

This is a problem of modern movies as well. Whenever you add filler junk to an otherwise laser-focused script, you are just asking for problems.
Screaming Meat
Member
(07-23-2016, 02:01 PM)

Originally Posted by Sojgat

He knows The Killing Joke is one of the worst things he's written anyway. I'm not sure he'd really care that they found a new way to make it bad, just that they made it into a movie in the first place.

Originally Posted by DeathyBoy

Aye. I don't dislike TKJ, but it's not even in the top ten Batman stories IMO; let alone something which should be held up as a great comic-book in general.

...I thought I was alone T-T
Pau
Member
(07-23-2016, 02:06 PM)
Pau's Avatar
I know Bruce Timm wanted to do a Batgirl: Year One movie ages ago and now I'm thinking it was a blessing in disguise that he didn't.
Sanjuro
Inside Man
(07-23-2016, 02:07 PM)
Sanjuro's Avatar
I'm not in disagreement of what others are stating of the overall story.

There has just been a trend of people dismissing it recently (largely reactionary to Alan Moore's commentary). It's place is still there amongst the most recognizable reads. That's my point.
BladeoftheImmortal
Banned
(07-23-2016, 02:08 PM)
BladeoftheImmortal's Avatar

Originally Posted by lightskintwin

It's not executed well then, plus all indications seem to show she's a grown ass woman. Her scenes with her at work at the library, her professional outfits along with her Gay coworker, are reminiscent of corporate office scenes in sitcoms.

Uhhhhh, adults are just big children.
Subpar Spatula
It's not like you to say sorry, I was waiting on a different story. This time I'm mistaken for handing u a heart worth breaking. I've been wrong, I've been down into the bottom of every bottle. These 5 words in my head scream "Are we having fun yet"
(07-23-2016, 02:12 PM)
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Y'all gotta realize Batman is a pretty sleazy and immoral dude. I wonder if this is because society has finally caught on how awful he is and now there's finally backlash.
Kid Ying
Member
(07-23-2016, 02:24 PM)

Originally Posted by Sblargh

I think what makes TKJ a very good short story is precisely that anyone who isn't the Joker is just an object, including Batman. It is a very tight script. It's about how a monster rationalizes to himself that he isn't truly evil, he just had a bad day and went insane and the story, overall, takes the side of the monster, it makes us want to understand his point of view as close as possible without endorsing it. Even Batman and Gordon just show up so you can remember that the Joker is supposed to be a villain and even then it ends with Batman kind-of-almost-of-sorta sympathizing with him.

This is a problem of modern movies as well. Whenever you add filler junk to an otherwise laser-focused script, you are just asking for problems.

Hmm, when you put it like that, i agree. I just don't feel it's a particular good story. Perhaps it's the fact that everyone is so out of character or that the story is so short, but even when i first readed way back then, it never grabbed my attention like other classics like year one, Tdk and Arkham asylum. It's a well constructed comic, but not one that made me fall in love with. I'm not too fond of the Joker character though, so that's probably it. I liked him more when he wasn't so edgy, which is funny, since killer joke is one of the comics that pretty much changes him towards what he is nowadays.




Originally Posted by Sanjuro

I'm not in disagreement of what others are stating of the overall story.

There has just been a trend of people dismissing it recently (largely reactionary to Alan Moore's commentary). It's place is still there amongst the most recognizable reads. That's my point.

Well, lately Alan Moore has been dismissing pretty much everything he wrote when he was younger and people still love most of it. I believe some people were influenced, but there also the fact that this comic is one of his biggest works, so there's more people reading and making critiques than stuff like Promethea or League of extraordinary gentlemen.
Ban Puncher
The Console Industry:
Pop Pop Pop Pop
(07-23-2016, 02:29 PM)
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Not reading the spoilers but was the animation as shitty as the trailer?

There's a one off screening at a nearby cinema tomorrow and I kind of want to see the final hurrah of Conroy and Hamill together but I don't want to waste my batbux on an animated film that has bad animation.
HK-47
Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
(07-23-2016, 02:32 PM)
HK-47's Avatar
Moore hasnt been happy with TKJ for much longer than his general grumpiness at the industry.
What did he mean by this?
Member
(07-23-2016, 02:38 PM)
What did he mean by this?'s Avatar
Batgirl deserved to be tortured by the Joker since she is a hoar

Thats why this was included right? People would feel too bad for Babs unless we make her a stank ho?
XAL
Member
(07-23-2016, 02:41 PM)
XAL's Avatar

Originally Posted by What did he mean by this?

Batgirl deserved to be tortured by the Joker since she is a hoar

Thats why this was included right? People would feel too bad for Babs unless we make her a stank ho?

bcuztimm needs new material for his spank bank
Lights and Waves
(07-23-2016, 02:44 PM)
Interesting that they made them lovers. They were lovers in BATS canon, but the killing joke never happens in that universe.
Slayven
gimme some o dat God-crafted alabaster greatness
(07-23-2016, 02:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Subpar Spatula

Y'all gotta realize Batman is a pretty sleazy and immoral dude. I wonder if this is because society has finally caught on how awful he is and now there's finally backlash.

He is, but not in this way.
Spaghetti
Member
(07-23-2016, 02:46 PM)
Spaghetti's Avatar

Originally Posted by Sanjuro

Alan Moore?!

I think your point is arguable, but it's generally found somewhere amongst the better Batmang stories.

Even Alan Moore himself doesn't think too highly of the book, if I remember rightly.

I personally appreciate TKJ for a lot of things, but I absolutely hate the pedestal it's been put on, and this animated adaptation is looking increasingly bad.

The description in the OP makes me cringe.
Kid Ying
Member
(07-23-2016, 02:48 PM)

Originally Posted by What did he mean by this?

Batgirl deserved to be tortured by the Joker since she is a hoar

Thats why this was included right? People would feel too bad for Babs unless we make her a stank ho?

No, i think it's the opposite. They tried to build Batgirl's character on it for people to feel more when she gets shot. It just backfired badly.
Sanjuro
Inside Man
(07-23-2016, 02:48 PM)
Sanjuro's Avatar

Originally Posted by Spaghetti

Even Alan Moore himself doesn't think too highly of the book, if I remember rightly.

I personally appreciate TKJ for a lot of things, but I absolutely hate the pedestal it's been put on, and this animated adaptation is looking increasingly bad.

The description in the OP makes me cringe.

I mentioned that in additional posts.

Also, Alan Moore is a crazy person. Imaginary bats and such.
Spaghetti
Member
(07-23-2016, 02:50 PM)
Spaghetti's Avatar

Originally Posted by Sanjuro

I mentioned that in additional posts.

Also, Alan Moore is a crazy person. Imaginary bats and such.

Ah, sorry. Went straight to quote.

He's not as crazy as people think he is, the "dark wizard" and snake god stuff is just him fucking with people. Moore does smoke a tremendous amount of weed though, so he's probably a little bit loopy in ways beyond his well-noted (and ultimately well-reasoned) paranoia.
Foggy
Member
(07-23-2016, 02:52 PM)
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Sounds amazing and stupid and hilarious and awful and brave and misguided. I definitely need to see it.
EdibleExplosives
Member
(07-23-2016, 02:55 PM)
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This sounds absolutely terrible, what the fuck. I was already unsure about watching it because of the shitty animation, but yeah I think I'll skip this.
JTripper
Member
(07-23-2016, 02:58 PM)
JTripper's Avatar
Yiiiikes. I was really hoping this would be at the very least an interesting adaptation and I was so excited to see Mark Hamill return but this whole Barbara sex plotline nonsense and 30-minute intro really buried my interest. Along with the mediocre impressions overall on the actual TKJ stuff, I might just wait for this to come to Netflix or something. What a shame.
Lebron
Member
(07-23-2016, 03:10 PM)
Lebron's Avatar
lol DC managed to fuck this up? Fucking Bruce Timm. Knew he wound stan that Batman/Batgirl shit into the movie somehow. Fucker has always been a stan on that.


Fuck. Literally, just follow the comic. But noooo, DC had to DC (and their animation group use to be GOAT).
iPaul93
Member
(07-23-2016, 03:29 PM)
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Watched it at a friend's today.I had high expectations and to be honest,I was a little let down.I thought it was just ok
Spike Spiegel
the things I do for money
I'll never understand
the world is just a marble
in the palm of my hand
(07-23-2016, 03:33 PM)
Spike Spiegel's Avatar
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/07/...ego-screening/

An article from the panel attendee who snarked at the panel and got called a derogatory term by writer Brian Azzarello.

I will say that Azzarello's take on Batman has never sat well with me; he adheres to the "Miller" belief that Batman is a psycho thug and all-around messed up person mentally; that comes through in his work, and in my view has always been a poor interpretation of the hero to make in general.
zorlaczerohero
Banned
(07-23-2016, 03:39 PM)
Is it out yet? How have people watched it already?
strafer
member
(07-23-2016, 03:39 PM)
strafer's Avatar

Originally Posted by zorlaczerohero

Is it out yet? How have people watched it already?

yes
rrc1594
Member
(07-23-2016, 03:41 PM)
rrc1594's Avatar

Originally Posted by Lebron

lol DC managed to fuck this up? Fucking Bruce Timm. Knew he wound stan that Batman/Batgirl shit into the movie somehow. Fucker has always been a stan on that.


Fuck. Literally, just follow the comic. But noooo, DC had to DC (and their animation group use to be GOAT).

He always pushing for this for some reason
zorlaczerohero
Banned
(07-23-2016, 03:45 PM)

Originally Posted by strafer

yes

Legal download purchase link please.
The Adder
Banned
(07-23-2016, 03:49 PM)

Originally Posted by lightskintwin

It's not executed well then

Welcome to Barbara Gordon before she was shot and the reason none of us wanted her to be Batgirl again.

(FYI she'd retired from being Batgirl before the Killing Joke was ever made)
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
(07-23-2016, 03:57 PM)
I thought the animation would be my issue with this movie.
It was the only thing I could deal with.
The story in the first half is shit. They ruined Batgirl. I hope you guys give her a second chance, she's one of the best. Please read/watch Bat Girl Year One.

The actual second part of the movie, is alright for an adaptation of the killing joke. But what came before it will take you out of the mood completely. Didn't even finish watching it.
labx
Banned
(07-23-2016, 03:59 PM)
Guys so Batman choke The Joker at the end or is just a real dick by letting the Joker "win"? That was confusing
Messofanego
Banned
(07-23-2016, 04:05 PM)
Well, thanks for informing us. Will just skip this one.
diamount
Banned
(07-23-2016, 04:07 PM)

Originally Posted by Kanik

Yikes. Now do I cancel my Monday theater tickets?

It's in theaters? Thought it was a straight to video release.
Bear Force One
Banned
(07-23-2016, 04:09 PM)
Killing Joke has always been misogynist crap. No surprise here.
Gentleman Jack
Member
(07-23-2016, 04:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by zorlaczerohero

How have people watched it already?

There are a lot of previews out there and it premiered at comic con last night so now everyone knows what happened in it.
HK-47
Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
(07-23-2016, 04:15 PM)
HK-47's Avatar

Originally Posted by Sanjuro

I mentioned that in additional posts.

Also, Alan Moore is a crazy person. Imaginary bats and such.

What does the mental state of Alan Moore right now have to do with his disappointment in TKJ?
Nudull
Member
(07-23-2016, 04:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by HK-47

What does the mental state of Alan Moore right now have to do with his disappointment in TKJ?

People with mental illnesses can't be taken seriously, don'tcha know? >.>
zorlaczerohero
Banned
(07-23-2016, 04:22 PM)

Originally Posted by Gentleman Jack

There are a lot of previews out there and it premiered at comic con last night so now everyone knows what happened in it.

So most people on here have pirated it or watched the pirated version at their "mates" house? I didn't think Gaf allowed such discussion. Got my tickets for 3pm tomorrow here in Australia, taking my 15 year old daughter who is a new Batman fan, I'll listen to her take on it, see if she thinks the Batgirl arc is warranted. Having read the Killing Joke on its release alongside Batgirl and Batman I'd like to hear the opinions of someone with no preconceived notions as to whether the Batgirl section helps to build the scene. I believe it was put in so Batgirls trials had some meaning, a 90 minute film has to make up for the decades of backstory that comic fans had already experienced when reading the original source material.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
(07-23-2016, 04:34 PM)

Originally Posted by Subpar Spatula

Y'all gotta realize Batman is a pretty sleazy and immoral dude. I wonder if this is because society has finally caught on how awful he is and now there's finally backlash.

Only if the writer wants him to sleazy. Plus this sounds like Frank Miller All-Star Batman type of sleazy.

Originally Posted by XAL

bcuztimm needs new material for his spank bank

I wanna believe Dini kept Timm's Pervy side under control back when they worked together. I think Gail Simone once said that Timm could never keep his promise to not draw DC female characters in pin-up poses every year.

Originally Posted by diamount

It's in theaters? Thought it was a straight to video release.

This isn't a movie that was made for wide theater release. It's still straight-to-home release but DC or WB decided it should be in select theaters for like two days due to it's name.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
(07-23-2016, 04:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Unbelievable. Well, i never liked the killing hoje that much anyway. Hope they never try to make an animated movie of arkham asylum though.

Down for Arkham if they spend money on it and make it look like Dave McKean's art brought to life.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
(07-23-2016, 04:43 PM)

Originally Posted by PhoncipleBone

Down for Arkham if they spend money on it and make it look like Dave McKean's art brought to life.


C'mon, Phonciple. We both know DC would never do that. You'd get 3 frames at most.

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