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Vulcano's assistant
Banned
(05-21-2012, 11:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by LeleSocho

Too bad that the ingame stuff is worse than the artwork i chose for LoS that's why i bolded "at best"... the previous artwork is sure more appealing than this




also Kojima's artworks are well transported in the games within the possibilities of the genre (2d sidescroller)

I agree with you on that Kojima's art is superior, and I give you that Character models in LOS are not the strongest part of its art. But I don't see how can anyone just say that the art in the game is shitty when 90% of 3d games has worse looking and less imaginative environments, plus the game has a lot of texture variety.

No game looks like Kojima's paintings, and it would look amazing if translated properly into a game, better than LOS. But LOS is currently a better effort (with its own art direction) , than previous 3D Castlevania with their's.
Hours Left
Member
(05-21-2012, 11:22 PM)
Every time a new Castlevania game is announced, I have to control the urge of jumping back into the series. I'd have way too many games to catch up on and my backlog is already ridiculous.

It will probably be pretty too... :(
Skilletor
Banned
(05-21-2012, 11:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Foffy

I think Lords of Shadow is a pretty good action/adventure title, but a bad Castlevania game. The only part that hits that note well is the Vampire arc, and that's only one-third of the experience. It abandons many tropes the franchise had going for it that it only infuriates me, and in fact introduced things David Cox said the game would never try to do. Why are checkpoints and QTEs for bosses in my Castlevania? How do I turn them off? Those seem heavily against the aesthetic and approach to the core experience that has made Castlevania what it was, and that's just in direct gameplay.

I think that, with a 2D game, it will be a lot more difficult to get rid of "what a Castlevania game is," and that's part of the reason I'm really interested to see what comes of it.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
(05-21-2012, 11:22 PM)

Originally Posted by Skilletor

Who is even making games anymore at Konami aside from Kojima's team?

PES team, Bemani team, Power Pro team, Love Plus team... that might be it?

Truly sad what Konami's become. Plus they murdered Hudson.
Foffy
Banned
(05-21-2012, 11:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gunloc

Every time a new Castlevania game is announced, I have to control the urge of jumping back into the series. I'd have way too many games to catch up on and my backlog is already ridiculous.

It will probably be pretty too... :(

Most Castlevania games are not long at all. In fact, outside of Lords of Shadow and Curse of Darkness, the other games can be beaten in 5-9 hours on a normal playthrough. At least for me..
Yuterald
Memb... er
(05-21-2012, 11:26 PM)
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It blows my mind how we haven't seen a 3DS Castlevania game yet. Seriously, what the fuck happened to IGA? Sorry if this has been answered in the thread already, but does anyone know if he still works at Konami? What's he been up to? Wasn't he responsible for that boring XBLA/PSN Castlevania title that reused every asset/resource from the GBA & DS titles? What was that game called? Harmony of Whateeeever, I think?

Anyway, I liked the Mercury Steam Castlevania game. Lords of Shadow was awesome, aside from the terrible FPS. Do I like it more than the Japanese (IGA or old school) Castlevania titles? Fuck no, but it certainly wasn't an embarrassment or tragedy unlike what has happened to the rest of Konami's beloved franchises (Silent Hill, oh my...).

Honestly, as much as I enjoyed Lords of Shadow, I would not want to see a portable/2D game from Mercury Steam or anyone else for that matter (and definitely not Griptonite) Please, just give us an IGAvania, Konami. After the GBA it isn't right for a Nintendo portable to NOT have a Castlevania trilogy. There is a lot of cool potential shit you can do with the 3DS too with the use of 3D/street pass, etc. that would make the games feel fresh again, I think.

Also, I too prefer the Ayami Kojima art, but Lords of Shadow in no way has disgusting or terrible art. I thought it suited the look of the game very well and most definitely gave off an NES Castlevania era artwork vibe.
brandonh83
Banned
(05-21-2012, 11:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by LeleSocho

you can easily comprehend how the art of LoS is shitty compared to the one of Ayami Kojima

I must not be able to easily comprehend it. I see more color and slightly more Japanese design in Kojima's art. All I saw in your post was awesome art all-around.
Spieler Eins
Member
(05-21-2012, 11:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Vulcano's assistant

I agree with you on that Kojima's art is superior, and I give you that Character models in LOS are not the strongest part of its art. But I don't see how can anyone just say that the art in the game is shitty when 90% of 3d games has worse looking and less imaginative environments, plus the game has a lot of texture variety.

To me it's not that the art is shitty or anything, but that it doesn't feel like it fits into the rest of the series. The main character comes closest, but then there's... all the rest. The enemy from that pic in your quote looks like it's from Buffy The Vampire Slayer or something, not Castlevania.
I don't want this to be in 2D Castlevania too tbh.
Barryman
Member
(05-21-2012, 11:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by 7threst

Reading this thread makes me wonder: can Konami ever satisfy fans? I think not. Nothing wrong with wanting a game a certain way, but I also like something new and unique within a franchise I really love. And I think Mercurysteam can deliver that.

Probably not.

Personally, I think that while the IGA formula was getting stale, there are tons of things that could be done to reinvigorate that style of Castlevania -- beautiful HD sprites (hey UBI, weren't you going to make UBIArt open source? Get on that!), experimental music that funks and grooves, more concentration on exploration and atmosphere, etc. I think at some point they just stopped making new stuff (the later games aside, but I didn't care for their neutered style and simplistic gameplay).

Basically instead of making Castlevania conform to the norm, push what makes it unique, using modern technology and design principles!
LeleSocho
Member
(05-21-2012, 11:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by 7threst

Reading this thread makes me wonder: can Konami ever satisfy fans? I think not. Nothing wrong with wanting a game a certain way, but I also like something new and unique within a franchise I really love. And I think Mercurysteam can deliver that.

Of course they can, they almost done it the last gen when they've released games on GBA and PS2 but of course all of them where IGAtroidvanias so they only appealed one side of fans... now that they have found success with MercurySteam and their version of Castlevania can continue to keep the new Castlevania on home consoles (so one part of fans is happy) and the IGAtroidvanias on portables (so the other ones are happy)

yeah it will remain the Classicvanias fans but i think if they continued on the road of OoE they will be happy too
Foffy
Banned
(05-21-2012, 11:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by LeleSocho

Of course they can, they almost done it the last gen when they've released games on GBA and PS2 but of course all of them where IGAtroidvanias so they only appealed one side of fans... now that they have found success with MercurySteam and their version of Castlevania can continue to keep the new Castlevania on home consoles (so one part of fans is happy) and the IGAtroidvanias on portables (so the other ones are happy)

yeah it will remain the Classicvanias fans but i think if they continued on the road of OoE they will be happy too

Some would argue the PS2 games didn't, as they simply took a 2D Metroidvania, put it in 3D, and released it. Lords is a step above that in terms of feeling more like an adventure, and that's good. But I don't think anyone wanted the same team to be in charge on the portable front, too, as they're at risk of changing the formula for the worse, or abandon it entirely.
jj984jj
He's a pretty swell guy in my books anyway.
(05-21-2012, 11:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Skilletor

Cool. :)

But seeing as how the rumor says WF isn't making it, I'm going to go ahead and see what MercurySteam produces instead of playing in the land of make believe.

You say that like I brought them up to being with. But as long as you understand, good luck with your invested interest (not faith >_>) in this game.
The Broken Ska Record
Member
(05-21-2012, 11:45 PM)
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Oh man, oh man, oh man. I hope it's an IGAvania if true. I loved the GBA/DS Castlevanias despite having really poor sales.
jrDev
Member
(05-21-2012, 11:48 PM)
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Hmm...really interesting, I miss the 2D Castlevanias.

Also, I'll be shocked if LOS2 isn't on Vita...
Skilletor
Banned
(05-21-2012, 11:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by jj984jj

You say that like I brought them up to being with. But as long as you understand, good luck with your invested interest (not faith >_>) in this game.

Awesome, although I don't know what you mean by invested interest. I will wait to see gameplay footage before deciding whether or not it's something I will play. I'm interested because it's (rumored) to be a 2D game. I like those.
sphinx
the piano man
(05-21-2012, 11:55 PM)
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I feel really sorry for those who either hate Mercury Steam or LOS or Iga's games or whatever.

I truly loved and enjoyed all mainline castlevania games from last gen, 3 on DS, 1 on PSP and one on 360 so it will take a lot of missteps for this to be a let down.
GreggTheGrimReaper
Member
(05-21-2012, 11:58 PM)
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I wish it was a worthy successor to the mighty Super Castlevania IV.
LeleSocho
Member
(05-22-2012, 12:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by Foffy

Some would argue the PS2 games didn't, as they simply took a 2D Metroidvania, put it in 3D, and released it. Lords is a step above that in terms of feeling more like an adventure, and that's good. But I don't think anyone wanted the same team to be in charge on the portable front, too, as they're at risk of changing the formula for the worse, or abandon it entirely.

That's exactely what i wanted to say, sorry if i wasn't clear.
Nemo
Will Eat Your Children
(05-22-2012, 12:08 AM)
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No IGA?

FUCK
brandonh83
Banned
(05-22-2012, 12:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by sphinx

I feel really sorry for those who either hate Mercury Steam or LOS or Iga's games or whatever.

I truly loved and enjoyed all mainline castlevania games from last gen, 3 on DS, 1 on PSP and one on 360 so it will take a lot of missteps for this to be a let down.

ShockingAlberto
Member
(05-22-2012, 12:10 AM)
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The castle in LoS looked great.

Everything in the werewolf domain looked bad. It impeded playability.

The last area was just boring.
nincompoop
Banned
(05-22-2012, 12:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Teknoman

It really isnt shitty though. Shitty should be reserved for games with no redeeming values whatsoever. Mega Man MSdos is shitty.

LOS's framerate is so poor that I don't see how you can classify the game as anything but "shitty". Even if it had the deepest combat, the most inventive level design, the most detailed graphics, etc. of all time, you still wouldn't be able to appreciate those aspects due to its framerate making the game borderline unplayable.
GhostTrick
Member
(05-22-2012, 12:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by jrDev

Hmm...really interesting, I miss the 2D Castlevanias.

Also, I'll be shocked if LOS2 isn't on Vita...



The first one already had a terrible framerate on console. How could you imagine it on Vita ?
7threst
Member
(05-22-2012, 12:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Foffy

I think Lords of Shadow is a pretty good action/adventure title, but a bad Castlevania game. The only part that hits that note well is the Vampire arc, and that's only one-third of the experience. It abandons many tropes the franchise had going for it that it only infuriates me, and in fact introduced things David Cox said the game would never try to do. Why are checkpoints and QTEs for bosses in my Castlevania? How do I turn them off? Those seem heavily against the aesthetic and approach to the core experience that has made Castlevania what it was, and that's just in direct gameplay. If you analyze it deeply, they changed too much over and under the hood to make it even seem closer to Super Castlevania IV, the "bible" Cox used for the game. There's barely any of that in the game.


Yeah, I do admit that I'm maybe not a big fan like some others in this thread so I don't have that much of a problem if LoS didn't feel quite like a Castlevania-game. Also, more recognisable Castlevania elements would be great, since I enjoyed the little references in LoS like the Gandolfini reference and stuff like that. And now that you mention it, the boss fights in LoS aren't Castlevania-like at all yeah, so critics certainly do have a point. But still, I'm really interested in what this game will bring. E3 can't come soon enough!
Sadist
Member
(05-22-2012, 12:11 AM)
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I have faith.

I mean, it's not like it's the Silent Hill franchise ... ...
Xater
Member
(05-22-2012, 12:14 AM)
I liked Lords of Shadows so I am excited for this. I am still burned out on Igavania.
Gsak
Member
(05-22-2012, 12:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by brandonh83

I must not be able to easily comprehend it. I see more color and slightly more Japanese design in Kojima's art. All I saw in your post was awesome art all-around.

Way I see it, LOS artwork is more fantasy, whereas Kojima's is gothic. I think gothic suits Castlevania more. However, LOS in-game art is awesome. In the castle mainly.
Sothpaw
Member
(05-22-2012, 12:17 AM)
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If it is not Metroidvania I don't have any reason to keep my 3DS.
Conor 419
Banned
(05-22-2012, 12:19 AM)

Originally Posted by Gsak

Way I see it, LOS artwork is more fantasy, whereas Kojima's is gothic. I think gothic suits Castlevania more. However, LOS in-game art is awesome. In the castle mainly.

Yeah, I love Gothic Castlevania, SCIV was my favourite. The opening to that game's incredible.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
(05-22-2012, 12:19 AM)
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R.I.P. Metroidvania
wrowa
Member
(05-22-2012, 12:24 AM)
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Well, after the initial disappointment, I'm slowly becoming a little hopeful again. Maybe they are trying to make it a Metroidvania in style and as much as I liked Iga's games, a new take on the Metroidvania concept could turn out to be quite interesting.

It's a real shame that we most probably won't see Kojima artwork, though. Her designs always have been great and very distinctive. The Castlevania games always felt quite unique thanks to her.
brandonh83
Banned
(05-22-2012, 12:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gsak

Way I see it, LOS artwork is more fantasy, whereas Kojima's is gothic. I think gothic suits Castlevania more. However, LOS in-game art is awesome. In the castle mainly.

It has both fantasy and gothic art. I loved how the game started off with broader, beautiful vistas and then slowly deteriorated into the dark gothic style which was also reflective of Gabriel's deteriorating character.

Then, after the castle, it was quite literally very "damp" especially in that creepy village with the sunset, and then it moves into a more hellish atmosphere -- I loved how it started, like ohhh ahh, and then later there's running, and screaming.
The Bookerman
Member
(05-22-2012, 12:31 AM)
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Fuck this shit. I ain't buying it if it's mercury steam.

Though if Way forward are working on it, I'll reconsider.
Foffy
Banned
(05-22-2012, 12:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by 7threst

Yeah, I do admit that I'm maybe not a big fan like some others in this thread so I don't have that much of a problem if LoS didn't feel quite like a Castlevania-game. Also, more recognisable Castlevania elements would be great, since I enjoyed the little references in LoS like the Gandolfini reference and stuff like that. And now that you mention it, the boss fights in LoS aren't Castlevania-like at all yeah, so critics certainly do have a point. But still, I'm really interested in what this game will bring. E3 can't come soon enough!

And I would be fine with these changes if this was for console games exclusively, but I fear these can become potential tropes for the entire franchise if these apply to the portable games, particularly if they try to make a similar experience on them. Castlevania is usually a difficult franchise (I don't use healing items while fighting enemies in Metroidvanias, to try to make it similar to Classicvania), and with all the handholding in Lords, it easily loses that appeal for me, especially if you can't turn off all the glowing items that scream "GRAB THIS, YOU BLIND MAN" with the way they pop out at you with this effect. And of course, the QTE and checkpoints everywhere and stuff.

The homages are cute, but the only ones they did justice to was Lament, with the Gandolfi and Bernhardt references. Why do you have cake jokes and an Ocarina of Time reference? ):
Gsak
Member
(05-22-2012, 12:40 AM)
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LOS was a decent game. BUT it as far as I am concerned, it wasn't a Castlevania game and it'd be better off a new IP.

Is it that hard to take a little of Lament Of Innocence, a lot of SoTN and make a proper, new Castlevania Konami?
Hero of Legend
Member
(05-22-2012, 12:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by lunchwithyuzo

PES team, Bemani team, Power Pro team, Love Plus team... that might be it?

Truly sad what Konami's become. Plus they murdered Hudson.

Well a big chunk of Hudson is now snug over at ND Cube. :)
Orayn
Member
(05-22-2012, 12:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gsak

LOS was a decent game. BUT it as far as I am concerned, it wasn't a Castlevania game and it'd be better off a new IP.

Is it that hard to take a little of Lament Of Innocence, a lot of SoTN and make a proper, new Castlevania Konami?

There is no "proper Castlevania." The series is distinctly split into action games and exploration-heavy sidescrolling RPGs.
Colonel Mustard
Banned
(05-22-2012, 12:58 AM)

Originally Posted by Hero of Legend

Well a big chunk of Hudson is now snug over at ND Cube. :)

Nintendo should buy the Bomberman ip.

:(
Foffy
Banned
(05-22-2012, 12:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Colonel Mustard

Nintendo should buy the Bomberman ip.

:(

Nah, let Konami outsource that to Ninja Theory for a hard core explosive reboot.
kunonabi
Member
(05-22-2012, 01:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gsak

LOS was a decent game. BUT it as far as I am concerned, it wasn't a Castlevania game and it'd be better off a new IP.

Is it that hard to take a little of Lament Of Innocence, a lot of SoTN and make a proper, new Castlevania Konami?

A proper Castlevania that would not make. LoI was an attempt at SoTN in 3D anyway. Neither of the ps2 games were that great. Despite all the problems I had with LoS it was still better than those two. The N64 titles are still the only good 3D CV games.

I'm all for the end of Castletroids so I'm willing to give MS another shot depending on how the game shapes up.
tetrisgrammaton
Member
(05-22-2012, 01:02 AM)
Mercury Steam = I'm out.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
(05-22-2012, 01:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by kunonabi

A proper Castlevania that would not make. LoI was an attempt at SoTN in 3D anyway. Neither of the ps2 games were that great. Despite all the problems I had with LoS it was still better than those two. The N64 titles are still the only good 3D CV games.

I'm all for the end of Castletroids so I'm willing to give MS another shot depending on how the game shapes up.

There's barely any traces of SoTN gameplay in LoI, is way closer to the classic Castlevania formula.

I didn't played the 2nd PS2 game, but I don't think a proper Metroidvania 3D attempt have been done until now. And never will.
Chacranajxy
I paid good money for this Dynex!
(05-22-2012, 01:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Relaxed Muscle

There's barely any traces of SoTN gameplay in LoI, is way closer to the classic Castlevania formula.

I didn't played the 2nd PS2 game, but I don't think a proper Metroidvania 3D attempt have been done until now. And never will.

Lament of Innocence really only felt like SOTN with finding the secret areas. Otherwise it felt pretty linear... I thought it was a fun game at the time, but it really hasn't aged too well.

That soundtrack, though? Insanely good. Absolutely worth buying.
dallow_bg
nods at old men
(05-22-2012, 01:15 AM)
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Wish it was called "Mirror of Faith's Edge"

edit: or "Mirror on the Edge of Faith"
Foffy
Banned
(05-22-2012, 01:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by Chacranajxy

Lament of Innocence really only felt like SOTN with finding the secret areas. Otherwise it felt pretty linear... I thought it was a fun game at the time, but it really hasn't aged too well.

That soundtrack, though? Insanely good. Absolutely worth buying.

Curse of Darkness has some of the best music in the entire franchise, and I would suggest fans who haven't played that game to find the soundtrack. Out of all of Yamane's works, it is easily the one with the highest volume of fantastic music.
Darkmakaimura
(05-22-2012, 01:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by Defuser

No IGA/metoridvania = no interest.

This.

LoS was okay, but it barely felt anything resembling a Castlevania game. It barely had a castle and mostly consisted of outdoor areas. Even in name, it's hard to call it "Castlevania".

I want Iga back.
Gsak
Member
(05-22-2012, 01:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by kunonabi

A proper Castlevania that would not make. LoI was an attempt at SoTN in 3D anyway. Neither of the ps2 games were that great. Despite all the problems I had with LoS it was still better than those two. The N64 titles are still the only good 3D CV games.

I'm all for the end of Castletroids so I'm willing to give MS another shot depending on how the game shapes up.

1)You must be talking about Curse Of Darkness, cause LoI was more akin to traditional CV games.

2) You gotta be kidding about the N64 games, right? Right?



Originally Posted by Foffy

Curse of Darkness has some of the best music in the entire franchise, and I would suggest fans who haven't played that game to find the soundtrack. Out of all of Yamane's works, it is easily the one with the highest volume of fantastic music.

It's indeed great, but nothing will surpass the magnificent SoTN soundtrack.
kunonabi
Member
(05-22-2012, 01:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by Relaxed Muscle

There's barely any traces of SoTN gameplay in LoI, is way closer to the classic Castlevania formula.

I didn't played the 2nd PS2 game, but I don't think a proper Metroidvania 3D attempt have been done until now. And never will.


LoI was nothing like classic CV. It had far more in common with SoTN.

Character building, combat, loot, and "platforming" were far more in line SoTN. Not mention the backtracking and such. Primary progression may have been more linear but the rest of it was far more skewed to SoTN.
Ahasverus
Member
(05-22-2012, 01:30 AM)
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IGA's gone for good.
Long live the new series!
Cow Mengde
Banned
(05-22-2012, 01:32 AM)
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Sigh... so it seems like this rumor could very well be real huh? RIP Castlevania.

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