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Zefah
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:03 PM)

Originally Posted by theJwac

Honestly, everyone needs to settle down. We're talking about people who write up information about video games, not exactly Pulitzer material. I'm so tired of these witchhunts.

What this community (gamers in general, not just NeoGAF) is capable of when it picks up its pitchforks is so much worse than what this person deserves. It's a really ugly side of human nature that manifests itself far too frequently. Ms. Wainwright's punishment in the last 2 days certainly surpasses the crime.

It's always the same. People get so huffy puffy mad about something that in the grand scheme of things is so goddamn trivial. Step outside, breathe some air, and realize there is so much more to life than getting angry about something so trivial.

No. Arrogant assholes who should know better yet continue down the path of destruction deserve everything they have coming to them.

People need to learn humility, and I don't think they will unless they are called out like this. If you are trying to make a living through the Internet, then you should damn well know how it works.

"Live by the sword, die by the sword" very much applies here.
Hi i'm Caleb
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:03 PM)
Hi i'm Caleb's Avatar

Originally Posted by Mastperf

People sue for everything. As a matter of fact, you'll be hearing from my lawyer.


this made me laugh out loud and now I feel awkward... I'm in a library
JDSN
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:04 PM)
JDSN's Avatar
The sad part is, im sure that if Neogaf starts randomly checking the journalist background of the press they will find many stuff like this, Lauren was the wrong person at the perfect moment.

Originally Posted by JABEE

A classic song. Shawn Elliott is the voice we need in game journalism. Too bad he has moved on to bigger and better things.

Its a shame to know that there probably wont be a podcast as timeless and relevant as the Brodeo.
Delusibeta
Junior Member
(10-25-2012, 09:04 PM)
Delusibeta's Avatar

Originally Posted by theJwac

What this community (gamers in general, not just NeoGAF) is capable of when it picks up its pitchforks is so much worse than what this person deserves. It's a really ugly side of human nature that manifests itself far too frequently. Ms. Wainwright's punishment in the last 2 days certainly surpasses the crime.

It's always the same. People get so huffy puffy mad about something that in the grand scheme of things is so goddamn trivial. Step outside, breathe some air, and realize there is so much more to life than getting angry about something so trivial.

Mate, a) it's been closer to six hours than two days, and b) getting caught being employed by a company you're supposed to be covering is pretty much the cardinal sin of any form of journalism. Sure, the misogyny is too far, but it still doesn't mean that she doesn't deserve to be raked over the coals for this.
NateDrake
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by RotBot

What do consultants usually do for a publisher/developer? Is it just a glorified focus-test or something more?

Best description I could find:

Itís about making games playable, helping them stand out in the market place, adding content and elements which draw players in and keep them playing, and adding fresh ideas.
OrangeYouGlad
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:05 PM)
OrangeYouGlad's Avatar

Originally Posted by ezekial45

Wait, wait, wait....


Rob Florence was fired?

He quit because he has integrity.

Originally Posted by NateDrake

Best description I could find:

It’s about making games playable, helping them stand out in the market place, adding content and elements which draw players in and keep them playing, and adding fresh ideas.

Glorified focus group participant. They have an entire company of people to make sure all of the above happens.
theJwac
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:07 PM)
theJwac's Avatar

Originally Posted by Jburton

This is a forum about games, if people being interested or worked up over something that has to do with gaming annoys you then why come to a gaming forum?

Also whether directly or indirectly she has cost a respected member of the gaming community a paying job.

How exactly has she been punished? ............ people pointing out things she has done or is trying to cover / delete?


Seems you maybe need to take some of your own advice, stop getting so mad and take a walk outside.

First of all, I'm not annoyed but rather disappointed. I come to a gaming forum to read about games.

As for "costing a respected member of the gaming community a paying job", I'd have to point out that it seems he quit on his own terms because of his integrity. Regardless, we have received no official word so it's all speculation. His points were valid, but I doubt she set out with a goal to get him fired.

You don't see how all this frenzy is a punishment? I'm sure she's embarrassed and she has reason to be, but hundreds of people are wagging their digital fingers at her. Maybe the listing of Square Enix on her twitter was no longer accurate but she hadn't updated her bio recently. Or perhaps everyone is right and she removed in an attempt to hide it out of shame.

Regardless, it's not a big deal.
boutrosinit
Street Fighter IV World Champion
(10-25-2012, 09:07 PM)
boutrosinit's Avatar

Originally Posted by Gowans

The apology accepted tweet back to eurogamer makes my blood boil.

sadface
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
(10-25-2012, 09:07 PM)
CrunchinJelly's Avatar

Originally Posted by NateDrake

Best description I could find:

Itís about making games playable, helping them stand out in the market place, adding content and elements which draw players in and keep them playing, and adding fresh ideas.

I think it's about getting a better metacritic score as much as actually making a better game.
Victrix
*beard*
(10-25-2012, 09:08 PM)
Victrix's Avatar

Originally Posted by JDSN

The sad part is, im sure that if Neogaf starts randomly checking the journalist background of the press they will find many stuff like this, Lauren was the wrong person at the perfect moment.

Sure, but most of them are smart enough not to draw attention to it :P
VE3TRO
Formerly Gizmowned
(10-25-2012, 09:08 PM)
VE3TRO's Avatar
This is better than TV. Everytime I return something else has happened.

Keep on snowballing.
ezekial45
I have assigned to you one day for each year its punishment will last.
(10-25-2012, 09:08 PM)
ezekial45's Avatar

Originally Posted by Green Scar

Had his Eurogamer article amended, said "well, not doing any more articles then". They crossed his line, although he doesn't blame them for being cautious in the face of possible legal action.

https://twitter.com/robertflorence

Originally Posted by Zeliard

I think he walked away, but essentially felt forced to after Eurogamer was put in a basically impossible situation. He can't remain there after his opinions are censored. So in essence Wainwright and co. forced him out through their actions.

What a shitty situation. :(
Uthred
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:08 PM)
Uthred's Avatar

Originally Posted by theJwac

Honestly, everyone needs to settle down. We're talking about people who write up information about video games, not exactly Pulitzer material. I'm so tired of these witchhunts.

What this community (gamers in general, not just NeoGAF) is capable of when it picks up its pitchforks is so much worse than what this person deserves. It's a really ugly side of human nature that manifests itself far too frequently. Ms. Wainwright's punishment in the last 2 days certainly surpasses the crime.

It's always the same. People get so huffy puffy mad about something that in the grand scheme of things is so goddamn trivial. Step outside, breathe some air, and realize there is so much more to life than getting angry about something so trivial.

This argument, and others like it, are fucking stupid. This isnt a general purpose forum, its a gaming forum, shockingly that means that the main focus is discussing games and the industry and community around them. We don't need perspective, you need to realise that just because we're talking about on-topic stuff doesnt mean that we've magically forgotten the rest of the world exists.
HamPster PamPster
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:08 PM)
HamPster PamPster's Avatar

Originally Posted by RotBot

What do consultants usually do for a publisher/developer? Is it just a glorified focus-test or something more?

I don't remember what podcast it was, but I remember hearing journalist who go the consulting route often pretend "review" games for a publisher, so the publisher knows what scores to expect and what areas they can address in the last few months to get the best score possible

Honestly, I wonder if this is more common than the thread would suggest. Doing consulting work on the side for publishers and still reviewing their games, just not the ones you directly consulted on
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:08 PM)
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew's Avatar

Originally Posted by Gizmowned

This is better than TV. Everytime I return something else has happened.

Keep on snowballing.

It's the best reality series season this fall.
boutrosinit
Street Fighter IV World Champion
(10-25-2012, 09:09 PM)
boutrosinit's Avatar

Originally Posted by theJwac

First of all, I'm not annoyed but rather disappointed. I come to a gaming forum to read about games.

As for "costing a respected member of the gaming community a paying job", I'd have to point out that it seems he quit on his own terms because of his integrity. Regardless, we have received no official word so it's all speculation. His points were valid, but I doubt she set out with a goal to get him fired.

You don't see how all this frenzy is a punishment? I'm sure she's embarrassed and she has reason to be, but hundreds of people are wagging their digital fingers at her. Maybe the listing of Square Enix on her twitter was no longer accurate but she hadn't updated her bio recently. Or perhaps everyone is right and she removed in an attempt to hide it out of shame.

Regardless, it's not a big deal.

Sadly it is, because someone covering their steps helped another guy who was doing the right thing lose his job, and an independent site was (apparently) threatened legally for it.
MormaPope
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:09 PM)

Originally Posted by theJwac

First of all, I'm not annoyed but rather disappointed. I come to a gaming forum to read about games.

As for "costing a respected member of the gaming community a paying job", I'd have to point out that it seems he quit on his own terms because of his integrity. Regardless, we have received no official word so it's all speculation. His points were valid, but I doubt she set out with a goal to get him fired.

You don't see how all this frenzy is a punishment? I'm sure she's embarrassed and she has reason to be, but hundreds of people are wagging their digital fingers at her. Maybe the listing of Square Enix on her twitter was no longer accurate but she hadn't updated her bio recently. Or perhaps everyone is right and she removed in an attempt to hide it out of shame.

Regardless, it's not a big deal.

There's a ton of those if you click on Gaming, there's even more in the Community section!
dmr87
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:09 PM)
dmr87's Avatar
Lauren, never fight vs the internet.
Gomu Gomu
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:09 PM)
Gomu Gomu's Avatar

Originally Posted by theJwac

You would describe yourself as passionate about this? Would anyone other than the people directly involved?

I would. This is bigger than the people involved in this particular story. We are talking about a fairly large subset of people claiming to be journalists for a multi-billion dollar industry. Those whom a lot of readers depend on being objective and fair. But instead they are in bed with the people they cover. They eat and live off of them.

We are talking about poor work ethics, that is spread publicly in the open, industry wide. And no one is saying anything. But when someone says something. When someone steps up and tries to tell the readers that these people who claim to be journalists aren't what you want them to be. He becomes jobless, people called out lie and cover up and the industry keeps on.

This is a huge deal. It's about principles, honesty and ethical responsibility in an industry loved by millions. We need to be passionate about trying to make it better.
Last edited by Gomu Gomu; 10-25-2012 at 09:11 PM.
FlutterPuffs
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:10 PM)
FlutterPuffs's Avatar
Edit: Wainright-ed this post out of embarassment.
Last edited by FlutterPuffs; 10-25-2012 at 09:19 PM.
Kinyou
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:10 PM)
Kinyou's Avatar

Originally Posted by Gowans

The apology accepted tweet back to eurogamer makes my blood boil.

I still don't even get what there was to apologize for.

The whole article was clearly the opinion from the author, and he clearly states that he doesn't even think that she was intentionally doing PR.
TheSeks
Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
(10-25-2012, 09:10 PM)
TheSeks's Avatar

25-year-old Wainwright is currently finishing a Games Studies & Journalism degree at London Metropolitan University

YouKeepUsingThatWordIDon'tThinkItMeansWhatYouThinkItMeans.jpg
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:10 PM)
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew's Avatar

Originally Posted by dmr87

Lauren, never fight vs the internet.

She dun goofed. Consequences will never be t-ahh nevermind.

Future reference: Man up and admit mistake or ignore like Keighley is ignoring. That or make it a joke and shrug it. No one will remember the article if you let it slide. Now? Everyone does.
Lancehead
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:11 PM)
Lancehead's Avatar

Originally Posted by theJwac

Honestly, everyone needs to settle down. We're talking about people who write up information about video games, not exactly Pulitzer material. I'm so tired of these witchhunts.

What this community (gamers in general, not just NeoGAF) is capable of when it picks up its pitchforks is so much worse than what this person deserves. It's a really ugly side of human nature that manifests itself far too frequently. Ms. Wainwright's punishment in the last 2 days certainly surpasses the crime.

It's always the same. People get so huffy puffy mad about something that in the grand scheme of things is so goddamn trivial. Step outside, breathe some air, and realize there is so much more to life than getting angry about something so trivial.

Every single thing can be goddamn trivial in the "grand scheme" of things. But people can put things into perspective and see things in their own light. People don't need to stop living their lives to be interested in things like these.
VariantX
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:11 PM)

Originally Posted by theJwac

First of all, I'm not annoyed but rather disappointed. I come to a gaming forum to read about games.

As for "costing a respected member of the gaming community a paying job", I'd have to point out that it seems he quit on his own terms because of his integrity. Regardless, we have received no official word so it's all speculation. His points were valid, but I doubt she set out with a goal to get him fired.

You don't see how all this frenzy is a punishment? I'm sure she's embarrassed and she has reason to be, but hundreds of people are wagging their digital fingers at her. Maybe the listing of Square Enix on her twitter was no longer accurate but she hadn't updated her bio recently. Or perhaps everyone is right and she removed in an attempt to hide it out of shame.

Regardless, it's not a big deal.

This isn't the only topic in the gaming discussion section of the forums.
Effnine
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:11 PM)
Effnine's Avatar

Originally Posted by theJwac

It's always the same. People get so huffy puffy mad about something that in the grand scheme of things is so goddamn trivial. Step outside, breathe some air, and realize there is so much more to life than getting angry about something so trivial.

You've proven exactly why this is an issue. It isn't trivial. This is a very obvious example of everything that is currently wrong with the state of the media in general. While writing about games may seem trivial to you, also remember that those games make companies a lot of money.

Try to think of this issue in grander terms. For example, media outlet says Brand X is awesome and if you are buying any brand, then it should definitely be Brand X. Now, if you were looking to buy a brand and you saw Brand X, wouldn't that recommendation play some part in your decision making? While you may be superior to the average consumer, this doesn't excuse this type of behavior from a media outlet.
Accoun
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:12 PM)
Accoun's Avatar

Originally Posted by shagg_187

That review was deleted, btw. Go figure.

.
Paranerd
Junior Member
(10-25-2012, 09:12 PM)
Paranerd's Avatar

Originally Posted by Dawg




Wow.

Also interesting how that tweet mentions the consultant job that she removed from her job profile.
marrec
Loves ketchup on hot dogs and Pringles
(10-25-2012, 09:12 PM)
marrec's Avatar
Man Fritolay must be pissed that their product is about to be issued off the thread title.

Time to send some doritos to bish.
RotBot
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:12 PM)
RotBot's Avatar

Originally Posted by TheNiX

He quit because he has integrity.



Glorified focus group participant. They have an entire company of people to make sure all of the above happens.

That's what I figured. If it's something like that, I don't really see a need to abstain from reviewing every subsequent game ever published by that company. Just the game you consulted on. By that standard, you could say Jeff Gerstmann worked as an unpaid consultant for Capcom by talking to their devs about shooters.
theJwac
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:13 PM)
theJwac's Avatar

Originally Posted by Delusibeta

Mate, a) it's been closer to six hours than two days, and b) getting caught being employed by a company you're supposed to be covering is pretty much the cardinal sin of any form of journalism. Sure, the misogyny is too far, but it still doesn't mean that she doesn't deserve to be raked over the coals for this.

Fair enough, about the time line, I was thinking of when I first saw that image of Geoff a few days ago. I agree that her ethics as person who covers games professionaly is up for question, but I don't agree with the mob mentality that gets involved with these kind of things.

For the record, I agree with Rab's original article entirely.
skip
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:13 PM)
skip's Avatar

The entrie 1UP crew were all in it to get industry jobs

Originally Posted by Averon

THIS. The turnover rate at 1UP was crazy. It felt like someone was leaving to get a community manager job every other month. In retrospect, the entire site was used as a stepping ladder to get into the industry proper by the "personalities".

this, and comments like this, are incorrect and over-exaggerated. most, if not all of us at 1UP really wanted to stay and continue doing what we were doing. we liked each other and we were proud of our publications and shows. however, economic reality (cost of living in San Francisco, uncertain future of Ziff Davis, all sorts of personal reasons) meant that there was more incentive to leave for something more stable within the industry.
MormaPope
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:13 PM)

Originally Posted by shagg_187

She dun goofed. Consequences will never be t-ahh nevermind.

Future reference: Man up and admit mistake or ignore like Keighley is ignoring. That or make it a joke and shrug it. No one will remember the article if you let it slide. Now? Everyone does.

Geoff Keighley will basically be untouched and barely noticed by the end of this, he knew that if he attacked any naysayers he would be further questioned and ostracized.
Leunam
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:13 PM)
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This whole thing has been an enjoyable read.

Does /MtnDew fit in the title?
Cat Party
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:14 PM)
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Lucky for her, Deus Ex: HR was a great game.
PsychoRaven
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by shagg_187

That review was deleted, btw. Go figure.

Wait since just discovered or long ago?
theJwac
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:14 PM)
theJwac's Avatar

Originally Posted by VariantX

This isn't the only topic in the gaming discussion section of the forums.

So I'm not allowed to read it and comment on it? He asked a question and I answered it.
Delusibeta
Junior Member
(10-25-2012, 09:14 PM)
Delusibeta's Avatar

Originally Posted by echothreealpha

From Intent Media's site:
Doesn't seem like the best company to handle a gaming site/journalists.

That's because it's not the Intent Media in question. This is what you're looking for.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:14 PM)
Fine Ham Abounds's Avatar

Originally Posted by Green Scar

It's funny how I was wondering only a week ago, "I wonder what Rab's up to lately?".

Then, this. :lol

Last week I found Consolevania for the first time thanks to that God Hand review.

We have impeccably relevant timing, sir.
Felix Lighter
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:14 PM)
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I had no idea that UK libel laws were so strict. I thought their tabloids were notoriously brutal.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Accoun

.

Electronic copy for that here: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...evolution.html

Originally Posted by PsychoRaven

Wait since just discovered or long ago?

If I am correct, someone mentioned since being discovered.
Last edited by Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew; 10-25-2012 at 09:17 PM.
Jackben
(10-25-2012, 09:15 PM)
Jackben's Avatar
To think, this is what kicked it all off:



2012. What a crazy year for gaming.
Zefah
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:16 PM)

Originally Posted by theJwac

So I'm not allowed to read it and comment on it? He asked a question and I answered it.

No, you're perfectly free to do so, just like everyone else is perfectly free to call you out for having a bad opinion or being wrong about the issue.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
(10-25-2012, 09:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by RotBot

That's what I figured. If it's something like that, I don't really see a need to abstain from reviewing every subsequent game ever published by that company. Just the game you consulted on. By that standard, you could say Jeff Gerstmann worked as an unpaid consultant for Capcom by talking to their devs about shooters.

Does anyone remember when Konami flew a bunch of games journalists to Japan to get them to play through all of MGS4 and give them feedback?

That's way more scummy than any Captivate event.
Hero
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:16 PM)
Hero's Avatar

Originally Posted by theJwac

First of all, I'm not annoyed but rather disappointed. I come to a gaming forum to read about games.

Go read another thread then? Or is that too novel of a concept for you?
mclem
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:16 PM)

Originally Posted by CambriaRising

Martin Mathers: Nintendo.co.uk (No big deal, just found it ironic.)

Why does *he* need a free PS3? He's the Megabyte Millionaire!
Kinyou
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:16 PM)
Kinyou's Avatar

Originally Posted by Cat Party

Lucky for her, Deus Ex: HR was a great game.

lol, I was about to say the same. Every good journalist would praise that game, corrupt or not. ;)
FlutterPuffs
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:17 PM)
FlutterPuffs's Avatar

Originally Posted by shagg_187

She dun goofed. Consequences will never be t-ahh nevermind.

Future reference: Man up and admit mistake or ignore like Keighley is ignoring. That or make it a joke and shrug it. No one will remember the article if you let it slide. Now? Everyone does.

This.

What Geoff did was THE main focus of the article. He however, will most probably come through this unscathed.

Sorry Lauren, I tried to defend you quite a bit. You should have just disconnect yourself from the internet, and visit a pub/play a game for a while.

Originally Posted by Delusibeta

That's because it's not the Intent Media in question. This is what you're looking for.

*blushes*

Well shit.
Vice
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:17 PM)
Vice's Avatar

Originally Posted by Averon

THIS. The turnover rate at 1UP was crazy. It felt like someone was leaving to get a community manager job every other month. In retrospect, the entire site was used as a stepping ladder to get into the industry proper by the "personalities".

Going from journalism to PR is pretty normal. Better hours, better pay and less worries about your place of employment going bellyup.
Jburton
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:17 PM)
Jburton's Avatar

Originally Posted by Jackben

To think, this is what kicked it all off:



2012. What a crazy year for gaming.

Wait until next year, new Xbox and Playstation consoles will be revealed .......... the blood in the water will be dense and the sharks will be circling.

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