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Bony Manifesto
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by JimFear

a lot of people here dont seem to like polygon but ...

if you go here https://www.theverge.com/ethics-statement you can read this
"We do not take free or discounted merchandise, whether it's a $500 phone or a $1 thumb drive."

They seem to have loosened their policy since then.

http://www.polygon.com/pages/ethics-statement

Our writers will not accept gifts (including food and drinks) in excess of $50 in value.

Edit: Beaten by Osiris!
pargonta
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Omikaru

Apparently, we've started an "awful attack campaign" against Lauren Wainwright alongside 4chan.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/261506403452203008

haha what.

Originally Posted by Barkley's Justice

Can we get a more descriptive thread title?

This appears to be one of the year's more important issues in gaming playing out as we speak.

eh, it's a small event relatively. it's just the rhetoric can be powerful for the internet culture and review/news websites. [edit: as more websites chime in, the importance does pick up, as it looks like it will continue doing all through today] also we are in the moment of furious tension right now, so it feels important.

taking a step back it's not earth shattering news, and is more gossip/drama, which may be why most sites aren't getting on board.

I think if it goes a few steps further into actual litigation or anything substantial, then it would be huge.
Last edited by pargonta; 10-25-2012 at 06:56 PM.
PaulLFC
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Uthred

Being shamed into donating the PS3 is hardly deserving of respect

Except it seems from what I can tell that he'd already made the pledge before this happened. He regularly holds giveaways too. Either way, he at least understand what he's done wrong and is remorseful about it, which is seemingly not Wainwright's stance.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
(10-25-2012, 06:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Omikaru

Apparently we at GAF, alongside 4chan, have started an "awful attack campaign" against Lauren Wainwright.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/261506403452203008

GAF and 4chan uniting? Oh my...
Gannd
Banned
(10-25-2012, 06:48 PM)
In a just world, she would lose her job over this.
RedNumberFive
Banned
(10-25-2012, 06:48 PM)
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Some of Roger Ebert's personal ethics guidelines:

"No posing for photos! Never ask a movie star to pose with you for a picture . . . . . . You diminish yourself by asking for a snapshot."

"A trailer is not a movie."

"Accept no favors. For example, if some 'friends' throw you a birthday party at a Vegas joint they hope to fill with movie stars who are your 'friends,' say thanks, but no thanks. That crosses the line, even if the 'Britney Spears of Korea' truly is your close personal friend."

"Keep track of your praise. If you call a movie 'one of the greatest movies ever made,' you are honor-bound to include it in your annual Top Ten list. Likewise, for example, if you describe a film as 'the most unique movie-going experience of a generation,' and 'one of the best films of 2007, and of the last 25 years,' it's your duty to put it in the Top Ten of 2007."

I'd love to see game journos adhere to ANY of these.
Zeliard
(10-25-2012, 06:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Osiris

That's the Verge's ethics-statement, Polygon's doesn't go quite as far, unfortunately:

It's pretty amusing how they draw the line at $50. I wonder how they landed at that figure. Enough for dinner but not enough for a game console?
theSlacker
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:49 PM)

Originally Posted by shagg_187

GAF and 4chan uniting? Oh my...

Don't imply you think there isn't already some crossover, friend.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
(10-25-2012, 06:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Osiris

That's the Verge's ethics-statement, Polygon's doesn't go quite as far, unfortunately:

To note, The Verge excludes food. Polygon mentions it. That's likely the reason for $50.
Dachande
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:49 PM)
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Rab has posted a few more tweets that I haven't seen in this thread.

https://twitter.com/robertflorence/s...17381040476161

Nothing could be further from the spirit of my Eurogamer pieces than any misogynistic abuse. A heartbreaking day, all in all.

https://twitter.com/robertflorence/s...17716010180610

And as for these suggestions that there were no legal threats - I won't be made to look a liar. I was told what I was told.

https://twitter.com/robertflorence/s...18218148065280

Thanks for the kind words, everybody. I'm going to eat some chocolate or something. It's been a fucker of a day.

Fistwell
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Omikaru

Apparently we at GAF, alongside 4chan, have started an "awful attack campaign" against Lauren Wainwright.

HA! This is just getting better and better. Who the ef is Ian Miles Cheong? Gameranx... ??

So... we "don't even know 1/2 or what really happened"... fine, let us in on the juicy details mang!!!

Is gameranx an actual thing? Can't seem to access it. Might be from all the extra traffic he's getting from this (all of 3 people trying to check it out or something).
Last edited by Fistwell; 10-25-2012 at 06:55 PM.
see5harp
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:50 PM)

Originally Posted by Gannd

In a just world, she would lose her job over this.

Really? I think she's gotten egg on her face but the same could be said of the entire industry. The entire point of the original article was to point this out to everyone.
Dennis
Banned
(10-25-2012, 06:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Omikaru

Apparently we at GAF, alongside 4chan, have started an "awful attack campaign" against Lauren Wainwright.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/261506403452203008

We are?

Nice piece of "journalism" there Ian Miles Cheong......
YuriLowell
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Festwill

HA! This is just getting better and better. Who the ef is Ian Miles Cheong? Gameranx... ??

Whiteknight.
Shurs
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by APZonerunner

Just google him; the best example is that he was the man who broke the Infinity Ward breakup story. He even sent a guy to camp outside the office and watch out, IIRC, as a newspaper would. He works for Giant Bomb now, and regularly does great features that are more than criticism or "here's a press release repackaged."

I know who Klepeck is, and I don't doubt your sentiments. I just wanted specific links of his best stuff.
RedNumberFive
Banned
(10-25-2012, 06:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by see5harp

Really? I think she's gotten egg on her face but the same could be said of the entire industry. The entire point of the original article was to point this out to everyone.

If I were to accept anything more than a cheap pen from a customer I would be fired immediately. Most ethical businesses operate this way.
Cat Party
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:52 PM)
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Most places I'm familiar with that have a no-gifts policy (not gaming related) have the same $50 threshold specifically because of meals. It makes sense. You don't want "Alright, you can pick up this tab, but I get the next one!" to turn into a violation of your code of ethics.
28 Posts Later
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Festwill

Who the ef is Ian Miles Cheong? Gameranx... ??

Someone fishing for the attention we're giving him.
Balotelli
Banned
(10-25-2012, 06:52 PM)

Originally Posted by RedNumberFive

If I were to accept anything more than a cheap pen from a customer I would be fired immediately. Most ethical businesses operate this way.

Well yeah ethical businjesses do but not video game outlets who get paid in fast food like pizza
SolidSnakex
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dachande


https://twitter.com/robertflorence/s...17716010180610

I'll take his word for it. No reason for him to lie about something like this.
Wildesy
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Omikaru

Apparently we at GAF, alongside 4chan, have started an "awful attack campaign" against Lauren Wainwright.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/261506403452203008

I like how his next tweet talks about all the misinformation surrounding this situation. Nowhere in this thread is there anything even remotely resembling an 'attack campaign' against Wainwright. If anyone has chosen to abuse her, the issue lies with the individual in question, it has nothing to do with Neogaf as a whole.
Ridley327
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gooster

Dan Amrich (does he still work at Activision?) just tweeted this AJ Glasser op-ed from 2010 about publishers treating writers like fans and some people going along with it: http://gamepolitics.com/2010/08/16/g...e#.UIl4yLT7AkV

I'm pretty sure he still does; I know he's been doing PR for CODBLOPS2 and was the interviewer in the original reveal video.

Fun fact: He was Dan Elektro during the 90s run of GamePro.
Gannd
Banned
(10-25-2012, 06:53 PM)

Originally Posted by see5harp

Really? I think she's gotten egg on her face but the same could be said of the entire industry. The entire point of the original article was to point this out to everyone.

When I talk to my clients or perspective clients, I must disclose any current or former relationships. If I own a stock, I must disclose that as well when discussing it. It's call ethics. She (and game journalists) don't have it.

They like to play it both ways "Games Matter!!!" "Wait, why are you holding me to any sort of standard!!! It's just video games, man!"
Zia
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bony Manifesto

They seem to have loosened their policy since then.

http://www.polygon.com/pages/ethics-statement



Edit: Beaten by Osiris!

In defense of Polygon, they're going to receive piles of junk, regardless, and I imagine it's tedious trying to unload it all. I don't even write about games for a living but have done some infrequent work for a large magazine and there's hardly a weekday that goes by where I don't receive a promo code or tchotchke.
Bony Manifesto
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Deadly Cyclone

To note, The Verge excludes food. Polygon mentions it. That's likely the reason for $50.

No, The Verge document explicitly mentions food.

We do not accept meals or gifts from companies or their PR representatives.

Beckx
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:54 PM)
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Kill Screen strongly backing Florence: "In any other field of journalism, the idea of a journalist being forced out because of a story about fully documented near collusion between journalists and PR would be absolutely anathema."

http://killscreendaily.com/headlines...telling-truth/
see5harp
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:54 PM)

Originally Posted by RedNumberFive

If I were to accept anything more than a cheap pen from a customer I would be fired immediately. Most ethical businesses operate this way.

It's probably that way for a lot of us. To be honest I take people's retirement pensions a lot more serious than video games. Someone did send one of those edible arrangements once and I think management thought that was okay to go ahead and eat.
cameron
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wildesy

I like how his next tweet talks about all the misinformation surrounding this situation. Nowhere in this thread is there anything even remotely resembling an 'attack campaign' against Wainwright. If anyone has chosen to abuse her, the issue lies with the individual in question, it has nothing to do with Neogaf as a whole.

#savelaurenwainwright
Brazil
Living in the shadow of Amaz
(10-25-2012, 06:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Omikaru

Apparently we at GAF, alongside 4chan, have started an "awful attack campaign" against Lauren Wainwright.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/261506403452203008

Finally! It took them way too long to band together and start defending her.

So predictable.
Dresden
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Empty

bah. rab wasn't libelling her, he didn't accuse her at all in the article, he used what she said as a way of explaining the importance of always coming across as very clean in journalism as if you're not people start to mistrust everything else they're saying.

does she not understand the concept of nuance?

Nuance? Is that a hashtag for TR or something?
Ridley327
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by see5harp

It's a shitty product that fails on a number of fronts ignoring the fact that the entire ad campaign is sexy zombie slayer. Hell, I think more sex would have added something to the largely boring game.

Lollipop Chainsaw seems like a very odd game to single out being a catalyst for change; it received decidedly mixed reviews and although I'm sure it made money at 700k copies, that's hardly the makings of a mainstream hit. It seems like that a game like Homefront is a better representation of that kind of behavior.
Corto
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zia

In defense of Polygon, they're going to receive piles of junk, regardless, and I imagine it's tedious trying to unload it all. I don't even write about games for a living but have done some infrequent work for a large magazine and there's hardly a weekday that goes by where I don't receive a promo code or tchotchke.

Hey there Zia. Well, if you want someone to help you unload that crap... #ZIAADVANCE
theSlacker
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:56 PM)

Originally Posted by Wildesy

I like how his next tweet talks about all the misinformation surrounding this situation. Nowhere in this thread is there anything even remotely resembling an 'attack campaign' against Wainwright. If anyone has chosen to abuse her, the issue lies with the individual in question, it has nothing to do with Neogaf as a whole.

Even 4chan isn't involved with it. They are reporting and trying to get the people making the comments on her steam banned. It is just straight up lying. Exactly what to expect. The easy out. Nope, we aren't wrong, everyone else is misogynistic.

Arthr2ShdsJcksn
Banned
(10-25-2012, 06:57 PM)
I get why people hate the term "games journalist", but I think it has more to do with the seeming lack of ethics when it comes to games industry events and reviews.

I don't think anyone wants "hard-hitting journalism", but how about some legitimate criticism. I don't think such a thing would ever be popular, but academically speaking, I think there is a place to study gaming critically.

I should point out,when I say criticism, I don't mean reviews, but rather a study of the rhetorical aspects of games to understand what makes a game successful or not. Needless to say, not a popular idea, but one that I would find interesting to write about.
RedNumberFive
Banned
(10-25-2012, 06:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by see5harp

It's probably that way for a lot of us. To be honest I take people's retirement pensions a lot more serious than video games. Someone did send one of those edible arrangements once and I think management thought that was okay to go ahead and eat.

At our company, any gifts (pens, stress balls, hats, t-shirts) are technically property of the company. There is a small exception when dealing with customers from other cultures in which giving small gifts is customary. Bottom line, legitimate businesses take these things seriously.
Grecco
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ridley327

I'm pretty sure he still does; I know he's been doing PR for CODBLOPS2 and was the interviewer in the original reveal video.

Fun fact: He was Dan Elektro during the 90s run of GamePro.

Even more fun fact he was a child star and almost stared in the lost boys iirc.
see5harp
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:57 PM)

Originally Posted by Ridley327

Lollipop Chainsaw seems like a very odd game to single out being a catalyst for change; it received decidedly mixed reviews and although I'm sure it made money at 700k copies, that's hardly the makings of a mainstream hit. It seems like that a game like Homefront is a better representation of that kind of behavior.

Fair enough. I didn't play Homefront though so I'm not going to pretend like I know anything about it.
criesofthepast
Overdue ROH inductees:
Pavel Bure
Sergio Momesso
Kirk MacLean's wife
(10-25-2012, 06:57 PM)
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I guess anyone with a twitter account or a blog is a journalist nowadays.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
(10-25-2012, 06:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Omikaru

Apparently we at GAF, alongside 4chan, have started an "awful attack campaign" against Lauren Wainwright.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/261506403452203008

This response is glorious.

Lancehead
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:58 PM)
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How much do a bunch of Doritos bags cost? Less than $50, I'd imagine.
Wildesy
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Beckx

Kill Screen strongly backing Florence: "In any other field of journalism, the idea of a journalist being forced out because of a story about fully documented near collusion between journalists and PR would be absolutely anathema."

http://killscreendaily.com/headlines...telling-truth/

He wasn't really forced to leave. That article is pretty misleading, it makes it seem as if Eurogamer gave him the flick because of the legal threats they received about his article.
inky
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:59 PM)
inky's Avatar
I think Evilore should sue for libel too.
cRIPticon
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zeliard

It's pretty amusing how they draw the line at $50. I wonder how they landed at that figure. Enough for dinner but not enough for a game console?

You have to be able to attend events thrown by publishers and companies. Typically, the food and trivial gifts will fall under this $50.
Balotelli
Banned
(10-25-2012, 06:59 PM)
What measures should we put in place to protect us though? We HAVE to come up with something that stops this. Perhaps a panel that gives a seal of approval to trusted sites who don't mix business with friendship. On this panel would be important key figures who aren't CORRUPT like Cliffy B and Shigaru Miyamotor and VINCENT INGENITO, you kjnow, REAL people we can trust.
SerRodrik
Member
(10-25-2012, 06:59 PM)
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So a dude writes an article about journalistic integrity, which then gets censored and he's out of a job over it? Someone in charge is either really goddamn clueless, or has a very keen sense of irony.
Mr. Poolman
Member
(10-25-2012, 07:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by shagg_187

GAF and 4chan uniting? Oh my...

Bitter enemies united against a common foe.


Be right back, need to write a fanfiction...
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
(10-25-2012, 07:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by CrunchinJelly

This response is glorious.

LOL!!! GUIZ! It was 5 years ago!1!! It's past already!
EternalGamer
Banned
(10-25-2012, 07:01 PM)
These two Twitter posts appeared in my feed consecutively. The optimist in me wants to think Larry Hryb is being a brilliant troll:


Larry Hryb ‏@majornelson
Congrats to team @Polygon site on the new site http://www.polygon.com/ Loookin' gooood
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite


Philip Kollar ‏@pkollar
Jeff paid me five Doritos to RT this RT @greenspeak Less articles about which writers are sellouts-More articles about how awesome PopCap isp

At the very least it's an amazing irony. Polygon editor jokes and makes light of the idea of videogame writer "sell outs." Very next post in my feed is an MS PR person telling Polygon how awesome their site is.
Omikaru
Member
(10-25-2012, 07:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Festwill

HA! This is just getting better and better. Who the ef is Ian Miles Cheong? Gameranx... ??

He's pretty self-righteous, though sometimes he makes good points. Other times, like now, he's just acting like an idiot.

Originally Posted by Dennis

We are?

Nice piece of "journalism" there Ian Miles Cheong......

In another tweet, he tells people to not jump to conclusions because the "dust hasn't cleared". Nice to see he's following his own advice.

Originally Posted by YuriLowell

Whiteknight.

I don't like this term, because it's often thrown around against men who stick up for a woman getting abuse online (with the implication of a more sinister intent), but from the way he's framed his argument on this it does suggest he's just gagging to put a sexist angle on it to try and discredit people who disagree with his evaluation. That doesn't make him a whiteknight, however, and I don't think he fits the mold of that kind of slimeball; he seems pretty genuine in how he wants women to be treated online.

Quite frankly, the world is full of sexist people and they're a major problem, but people rounding to defend her shouldn't use sexist abuse to deflect from the issue at hand. Just, you know, let's separate the sexist abuse Lauren is getting (and it's wrong) with genuine questions that need to be asked about what happened over the last 48 hours. And with Rab flat-out saying he was told legal action was threatened, I think this issue is wide open once again.

Originally Posted by CrunchinJelly

This response is glorious.

Fantastic.
Last edited by Omikaru; 10-25-2012 at 07:05 PM.
Gannd
Banned
(10-25-2012, 07:01 PM)

Originally Posted by jamesgriggs

I get why people hate the term "games journalist", but I think it has more to do with the seeming lack of ethics when it comes to games industry events and reviews.

I don't think anyone wants "hard-hitting journalism", but how about some legitimate criticism. I don't think such a thing would ever be popular, but academically speaking, I think there is a place to study gaming critically.

I should point out,when I say criticism, I don't mean reviews, but rather a study of the rhetorical aspects of games to understand what makes a game successful or not. Needless to say, not a popular idea, but one that I would find interesting to write about.

They aren't respected because they do not deserve our respect.

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