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Omikaru
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:46 PM)

Originally Posted by Archaix

Guys we were all overreacting. Lauren Wainwright never worked with Square Enix after all. I mean, she couldn't possibly just be trying to hide the truth and pretend these things never happened.

http://journalisted.com/lauren-wainwright

Unbelievable.
Gomu Gomu
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:47 PM)
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25-year-old Wainwright is currently finishing a Games Studies & Journalism degree at London Metropolitan University

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/key-p...-brands/096590

For her to not know what a conflict of interest is, and is doing what she's doing, means either that school is bad or she is a bad student.
PsychoRaven
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dawg

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hpTAU.png[IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/DHPTR.png[IMG]

Wow.

Oh shit. Now straight up lying. HOLYSHIT!!!

*Edit* As pointed out below might not have actually had anything to do with that game. So I appolagize to her for saying she's straight up lying.
Riposte
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:48 PM)
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Honesty and a thick skin is always a better defense than deception.
Jburton
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:49 PM)
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Oh man I stepped away for a few hours and this could not have gone any better.

This lady who is a 'corporate sponsored game critic' (we don't use game journalist for these people by default anymore) is trying to erase the things that only helped people derive their own opinions on the subject (articles hyping up Tomb Raider while having worked for SE).

Does she really think this helps?


These actions like the threat of lawsuit, actions that either directly or indirectly cost a writer a paying job only look like admissions of guilt.


Are we unfairly focusing on this person? ...... maybe, but when an opinion piece that made no direct assertions is threatened with legal action and costs someone a job .... well you are going to be a target.
NateDrake
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by PsychoRaven

Oh shit. Now straight up lying. HOLYSHIT!!!

Review the products she consulted on. No proof she consulted on that Tomb Raider.

Regardless, she shouldn't have reviewed a single Square Enix game
crazygambit
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Coxy

He admitted his mistake, agreed it was shady and is giving a ps3 away



which makes her tantrum look all the worse

This is just a good PR move on his part. How would it look if he kept it now? I don't believe for a second he truly cares that what he did was wrong. He's just sorry it blew up on his face.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
(10-25-2012, 09:49 PM)
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So I see she is trying to remove herself from the Internet.

If she would have confronted this head-on (or ignored it), it probably would have all blown over by now.
Nihilistic Monk
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nert

To be fair, a lot of people here make the same mistake of referring to "NeoGAF" as a singular entity (or worse: the dreaded "GAF hive mind"). This comes up all of the time in various political threads. It's silly when games writers do it and it's silly when people here do it.

I've not seen much of that on the gaming forum side of GAF. It comes up from Journos constantly. Especially lately in light of all the recent hullabaloo's.

We are not Reddit. We have discussion here. Gaf threads are made up of contrasting option and debate. That's why it's good! Save that cliquey hivemind junk for a lesser forum.
TemplaerDude
(10-25-2012, 09:50 PM)
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The fact that a Rab, a terrific writer, lost his job at Eurogamer because one woman is a hideous liar is so disgusting.
PsychoRaven
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by NateDrake

Review the products she consulted on. No proof she consulted on that Tomb Raider.

Regardless, she shouldn't have reviewed a single Square Enix game

Good point. Still. As you said she shouldn't have reviewed a single SE game. I'll appolagise to her though.
PrimeRib_
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by see5harp

I don't think most of the video game writers out there to present or think of themselves as being investigative jounalists. Most podcasts, including Justin McElroy's, revel and laugh in the fact that they are grown adults getting paid to talk about video games.

I'd agree, the majority don't project themselves as investigative journalists, but their employment is representation of a company. If that company lacks strict guidelines to preserve objectivity, they shouldn't be surprised when integrity is openly challenged.

I don't think writers need to hide their love or enjoyment of video games, it only matters if they're speaking from an objective viewpoint of their employer or not.
Dennis
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by shagg_187

BEFORE:



AFTER:

spirity
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:53 PM)
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Oh god. What the fuck are you doing Wainwright.
pants
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by crazygambit

This is just a good PR move on his part. How would it look if he kept it now? I don't believe for a second he truly cares that what he did was wrong. He's just sorry it blew up on his face.

Nah, Dave is good people. Good people make mistakes too. When pointed out to him, he reacted defensively like most humans do but when tempered heads cooled a little he admitted his mistake.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
(10-25-2012, 09:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by PsychoRaven

Oh shit. Now straight up lying. HOLYSHIT!!!

*Edit* As pointed out below might not have actually had anything to do with that game. So I appolagize to her for saying she's straight up lying.

Also: http://www.laurenwainwright.com/?attachment_id=2518
theJwac
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:54 PM)
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Honestly, everyone needs to settle down. We're talking about people who write up information about video games, not exactly Pulitzer material. I'm so tired of these witchhunts.

What this community (gamers in general, not just NeoGAF) is capable of when it picks up its pitchforks is so much worse than what this person deserves. It's a really ugly side of human nature that manifests itself far too frequently. Ms. Wainwright's punishment in the last 2 days certainly surpasses the crime.

It's always the same. People get so huffy puffy mad about something that in the grand scheme of things is so goddamn trivial. Step outside, breathe some air, and realize there is so much more to life than getting angry about something so trivial.
theSlacker
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:54 PM)

Originally Posted by NateDrake

Review the products she consulted on. No proof she consulted on that Tomb Raider.

Regardless, she shouldn't have reviewed a single Square Enix game

This. Really dumb of her to remove it from that page since it is another action that will blow this all up even more.
Hot Coldman
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:55 PM)
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It's funny how I was wondering only a week ago, "I wonder what Rab's up to lately?".

Then, this. :lol
Goody
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:55 PM)
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Very sad state of affairs here, folks. I'm disgusted the Florence lost a source of income over this and saddened that Wainwright may very well have done the same thing if there's any justice in these media outlets.
Zeliard
(10-25-2012, 09:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gomu Gomu

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/key-p...-brands/096590

For her to not know what a conflict of interest is, and is doing what she's doing, means either that school is bad or she is a bad student.

Also a terrible portrayal of journalistic sense and ethics is the role she played in inhibiting another writer's right to free speech via threats.

Which Rab is understandably pissed about:

8bit
Knows the Score
(10-25-2012, 09:55 PM)
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I think SE are more likely to be the threat here, it could have been implied that SE might pull ads from Eurogamer in light of this (possibly inferred by MCV).

This is probably where anyone is likely to hear Rab's take on it.

http://oran-mor.co.uk/whats-on/oran-...-out/?eID=2755
Snowden's Secret
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:55 PM)

Originally Posted by theJwac

Honestly, everyone needs to settle down. We're talking about people who write up information about video games, not exactly Pulitzer material. I'm so tired of these witchhunts.

What this community (gamers in general, not just NeoGAF) is capable of when it picks up its pitchforks is so much worse than what this person deserves. It's a really ugly side of human nature that manifests itself far too frequently. Ms. Wainwright's punishment in the last 2 days certainly surpasses the crime.

It's always the same. People get so huffy puffy mad about something that in the grand scheme of things is so goddamn trivial. Step outside, breathe some air, and realize there is so much more to life than getting angry about something so trivial.

If we don't grab the pitchforks, things will never change.

At the very worst, "journalists" will at least pretend not to do these things anymore, which is a step up.
kodt
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by NateDrake

Review the products she consulted on. No proof she consulted on that Tomb Raider.

Regardless, she shouldn't have reviewed a single Square Enix game

I don't see a problem with it as long as you disclose that you have consulted with SE before. Then if people think you are biased they can evaluate the review accordingly.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by CrunchinJelly

So I see she is trying to remove herself from the Internet.

If she would have confronted this head-on (or ignored it), it probably would have all blown over by now.

Yeah, ignoring it would have made it no news and people would have forgotten about it by the end the day.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dawg




Wow.

That review was deleted, btw. Go figure.
bishoptl
Banstick Emeritus
(10-25-2012, 09:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by shagg_187

BEFORE:



AFTER:

Originally Posted by Dawg




Wow.

Originally Posted by Effnine

*slow clap*
MormaPope
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:57 PM)

Originally Posted by theJwac

Honestly, everyone needs to settle down. We're talking about people who write up information about video games, not exactly Pulitzer material. I'm so tired of these witchhunts.

What this community (gamers in general, not just NeoGAF) is capable of when it picks up its pitchforks is so much worse than what this person deserves. It's a really ugly side of human nature that manifests itself far too frequently. Ms. Wainwright's punishment in the last 2 days certainly surpasses the crime.

It's always the same. People get so huffy puffy mad about something that in the grand scheme of things is so goddamn trivial. Step outside, breathe some air, and realize there is so much more to life than getting angry about something so trivial.

Um, no?

Also no one is really that mad, people are sorta in awe at this moment. Telling people to stop being passionate never works, this thread will get more pages and posts long after you've told people to calm down.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:58 PM)
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Holy shit @ thread title! :lol
Zeliard
(10-25-2012, 09:58 PM)
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Bish you forgot MOUNTAIN DEW

Four (4) of them
ezekial45
I have assigned to you one day for each year its punishment will last.
(10-25-2012, 09:59 PM)
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Wait, wait, wait....


Rob Florence was fired?
Jburton
Banned
(10-25-2012, 09:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by theJwac

Honestly, everyone needs to settle down. We're talking about people who write up information about video games, not exactly Pulitzer material. I'm so tired of these witchhunts.

What this community (gamers in general, not just NeoGAF) is capable of when it picks up its pitchforks is so much worse than what this person deserves. It's a really ugly side of human nature that manifests itself far too frequently. Ms. Wainwright's punishment in the last 2 days certainly surpasses the crime.

It's always the same. People get so huffy puffy mad about something that in the grand scheme of things is so goddamn trivial. Step outside, breathe some air, and realize there is so much more to life than getting angry about something so trivial.

This is a forum about games, if people being interested or worked up over something that has to do with gaming annoys you then why come to a gaming forum?

Also whether directly or indirectly she has cost a respected member of the gaming community a paying job.

How exactly has she been punished? ............ people pointing out things she has done or is trying to cover / delete?


Seems you maybe need to take some of your own advice, stop getting so mad and take a walk outside.
SolidSnakex
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by shagg_187

That review was deleted, btw. Go figure.

Delete the internet.
theJwac
Member
(10-25-2012, 09:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by MormaPope

Um, no?

Also no one is really that mad, people are sorta in awe at this moment. Telling people to stop being passionate never works, this thread will get more pages and posts long after you've told people to calm down.

You would describe yourself as passionate about this? Would anyone other than the people directly involved?
aegies
Member
(10-25-2012, 10:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by JABEE

You don't believe that going to those events can even subconsciously shape your experience with a game. They don't spend that money to fly everyone to Hawaii to just make their employees happy. It is a conscious move that Capcom makes to put you in a good mood. They want you to become buddies with their PR people, because they know that people can be influenced by not wanting to let down their friend's game or being in Hawaii puts members of the press in a better mood.

Do you ever think about these things when you go to these events? These junkets are performed to influence opinion leaders. The environmental and social pressures applied at these events are a conscious investment made by the Marketing departments of these publishers. They do it because they know know press members are influenced by these gifts.

I tend to be on friendly terms with PR people without going to Hawaii. I see them a lot. They're typically very nice, and a lot of them are helpful and good at their jobs. I'm also pretty candid with them and don't hide what I think about a game until it's review time, which a lot of them seem to appreciate. I've given a lot of very low scores and only had one instance where a publisher bitched about it (none of which was EA, by the way, or Capcom).

It's hard to explain how these events work, mentally speaking, but I am a hundred percent serious when I say they are more often a pain in the ass than anything else. And the place I'm playing a game hasn't once had an impact on how I felt about it. It didn't make Dragon's Dogma better, it didn't make Lost Planet 2 better. In fact, events like this and their regimented schedules tend to stress me out more than local events. I have a ton of shit to get done in a very compact schedule.

I understand why people think these trips make press more likely to like things, but if you look at the coverage coming out of them, that influence is virtually never borne out. At least not while I've been active in the press. I don't want to write off the possibility that someone could be influenced, but I've never seen it happen. I think people are much more likely to be led astray or into hyberbole by their enthusiasm for specific things, which is not going to go away. It's an opinion driven industry. Opinions owe as large a part to enthusiasm as anything.
Hot Coldman
Banned
(10-25-2012, 10:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by ezekial45

Wait, wait, wait....


Rob Florence was fired?

Had his Eurogamer article amended, said "well, not doing any more articles then". They crossed his line, although he doesn't blame them for being cautious in the face of possible legal action.

https://twitter.com/robertflorence
bishoptl
Banstick Emeritus
(10-25-2012, 10:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by theJwac

You would describe yourself as passionate about this? Would anyone other than the people directly involved?

If you've got an issue about folks on a games forum discussing a rapidly escalating story on games journalism, this probably isn't the thread for you.
pants
Member
(10-25-2012, 10:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakex

Delete the internet.

Might as well double down, there isnt a recovery from this.
cameron
Member
(10-25-2012, 10:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by theJwac

Honestly, everyone needs to settle down. We're talking about people who write up information about video games, not exactly Pulitzer material. I'm so tired of these witchhunts.

What this community (gamers in general, not just NeoGAF) is capable of when it picks up its pitchforks is so much worse than what this person deserves. It's a really ugly side of human nature that manifests itself far too frequently. Ms. Wainwright's punishment in the last 2 days certainly surpasses the crime.

It's always the same. People get so huffy puffy mad about something that in the grand scheme of things is so goddamn trivial. Step outside, breathe some air, and realize there is so much more to life than getting angry about something so trivial.

Calm down. Apply the same logic to your post.
kodt
Banned
(10-25-2012, 10:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by theJwac

Honestly, everyone needs to settle down. We're talking about people who write up information about video games, not exactly Pulitzer material. I'm so tired of these witchhunts.

What this community (gamers in general, not just NeoGAF) is capable of when it picks up its pitchforks is so much worse than what this person deserves. It's a really ugly side of human nature that manifests itself far too frequently. Ms. Wainwright's punishment in the last 2 days certainly surpasses the crime.

It's always the same. People get so huffy puffy mad about something that in the grand scheme of things is so goddamn trivial. Step outside, breathe some air, and realize there is so much more to life than getting angry about something so trivial.

I agree with you, but everyone is going to quote you and tell you how you are wrong and that they aren't taking this too seriously. Ignoring the 20 page thread or all the digging everyone has done trying to defame someone I have never heard of before today.
RotBot
Member
(10-25-2012, 10:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by NateDrake

Review the products she consulted on. No proof she consulted on that Tomb Raider.

Regardless, she shouldn't have reviewed a single Square Enix game

What do consultants usually do for a publisher/developer? Is it just a glorified focus-test or something more?
Lijik
Member
(10-25-2012, 10:01 PM)
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Been reading this entire thread while taking breaks to watch the latest GB quicklooks.

Holy shit @ Wainright.
MormaPope
Banned
(10-25-2012, 10:02 PM)

Originally Posted by theJwac

You would describe yourself as passionate about this? Would anyone other than the people directly involved?

I have interest in this subject yes, and others have interest or sometimes even passion. Telling people to stop caring and that there are more important things in life is sorta patronizing to be honest.
pakkit
Banned
(10-25-2012, 10:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jburton


How exactly has she been punished? ............ people pointing out things she has done or is trying to cover / delete?

My only concern is that some people seem to be inferring that she made the complaint that got the article pulled. When dealing with corporate, it's usually not that clear cut, and making assumptions is a dangerous game.
PrimeRib_
Member
(10-25-2012, 10:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by theJwac

You would describe yourself as passionate about this? Would anyone other than the people directly involved?

The fact we have 22+ pages in this thread speaks loudly that the industry (or those that follow the industry, at least) are very passionate about integrity in games ... writing ... stuff. Holy hell, what do we call this, now, if not journalism?
Uthred
Member
(10-25-2012, 10:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by conman

We may be a minority of readers, but we're a powerful minority. Considering how often GAF is the source for stories and the go-to place for crowdsourced dot connecting within the industry, I think we matter quite a bit as readers. Our opinions don't really affect game sales, but we do have an effect on industry coverage.

I think you're over-estimating its importance, this place largely runs on the echo chamber effect
DTKT
Member
(10-25-2012, 10:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by theJwac

Honestly, everyone needs to settle down. We're talking about people who write up information about video games, not exactly Pulitzer material. I'm so tired of these witchhunts.

What this community (gamers in general, not just NeoGAF) is capable of when it picks up its pitchforks is so much worse than what this person deserves. It's a really ugly side of human nature that manifests itself far too frequently. Ms. Wainwright's punishment in the last 2 days certainly surpasses the crime.

It's always the same. People get so huffy puffy mad about something that in the grand scheme of things is so goddamn trivial. Step outside, breathe some air, and realize there is so much more to life than getting angry about something so trivial.

I can't respect a medium that has a press that masquerades as PR. Games can be pretty awesome and deserve more than the current "journalism".
Zeliard
(10-25-2012, 10:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by ezekial45

Wait, wait, wait....


Rob Florence was fired?

I think he walked away, but essentially felt forced to after Eurogamer was put in a basically impossible situation. He can't remain there after his opinions are censored. So in essence Wainwright and co. forced him out through their actions.
FlutterPuffs
Member
(10-25-2012, 10:03 PM)
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Guys, guys.

Is she going to delete NeoGAF next?

Oh fuck. :(
Gowans
(10-25-2012, 10:03 PM)
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The apology accepted tweet back to eurogamer makes my blood boil.

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