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Balotelli
Banned
(10-25-2012, 08:22 PM)

Originally Posted by Vamphuntr

This thread became an entirely different thing since I read it this morning. Game critics don't seem to take attack on their credibility very well. The RPS piece was a nice read.

Can someone explain the Hellgate London thing?

game journalists are mostly postpubescent babies who upon any sort of criticism get self inflated and pretend that their mystical job of playing video games all day is more important than the hard wrokers like myself and you who have to cook pizzas for a shitty boss who gropes your girlfriend and then offers her some MDMA all the while you cant do shit because if you say anything he'll fire you and you can see your world falling down around you so you start resorting to heroin but hey that doesnt take all the pain away and your girlfriend is secretly getting wet from his gropesthe more they go on because he is 5 years younger anjd has nice blonde hair with a little taft and god damnit your scruggly fucking hair just dont cut it anyumore
Gomu Gomu
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by DangerStepp

It's not fair to say because all of them are NOT "game journalists".

There are different roles that makes up a gaming site: critic, news reporter, etc.

"Gaming journalist" is being used incorrectly way too often and gives wayyy too much credit to the wrong people.


THANK YOU!

It's up to us to differentiate and address these "video game enthusiast personalities" the appropriate title. As a community we've been doing it wrong for so long.

John Stossel is a journalist... Arthur Gies is not.
Hunter S. Thompson was/is a journalist... Jim Sterling is not.

The bigger problem is that most of them do refer to themselves as journalists.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
(10-25-2012, 08:24 PM)
LiquidMetal14's Avatar

Originally Posted by DangerStepp

It's not fair to say because all of them are NOT "game journalists".

There are different roles that makes up a gaming site: critic, news reporter, etc.

"Gaming journalist" is being used incorrectly way too often and gives wayyy too much credit to the wrong people.


THANK YOU!

It's up to us to differentiate and address these "video game enthusiast personalities" the appropriate title. As a community we've been doing it wrong for so long.

John Stossel is a journalist... Arthur Gies is not.
Hunter S. Thompson was/is a journalist... Jim Sterling is not.

Good points.

We need to form a round table and figure this out. Proper names and titles instead of game journalists.....

-Game writers
-Sketch artists
-Sitcom penman
-Gaming poets

All I got for now.
DangerStepp
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gomu Gomu

The bigger problem is that most of them do refer to themselves as journalists.

I know and that's even scarier.

PrimeRib_
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Balotelli

game journalists are mostly postpubescent babies who upon any sort of criticism get self inflated and pretend that their mystical job of playing video games all day is more important than the hard wrokers like myself and you who have to cook pizzas for a shitty boss who gropes your girlfriend and then offers her some MDMA all the while you cant do shit because if you say anything he'll fire you and you can see your world falling down around you so you start resorting to heroin but hey that doesnt take all the pain away and your girlfriend is secretly getting wet from his gropesthe more they go on because he is 5 years younger anjd has nice blonde hair with a little taft and god damnit your scruggly fucking hair just dont cut it anyumore

um, what?
JDSN
Banned
(10-25-2012, 08:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Empty

what does that even mean?

He probably started reading the thread and realize its not a bunch of guys posting dumb shit and calling her a cunt. Basically, he backtacked. Games journalism.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
(10-25-2012, 08:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Empty

what does that even mean?

Its a love/hate relationship. GAF is psychologically analyzing the situation while 4chan is observing the outcome. It's a test to see how long it takes until someone's willpower breaks down with the amount of sheer stress applied to the brain. When virtual life becomes bigger than reality, the voice of one man can echo as if its been said by millions.

It's a standalone complex type issue; representing "Ghost In the Shell: Standalone Complex" as a metaphor to his scenario. Similar to the game: cybercrime, espionage and terrorism plague a society lost between humanity and technology. NeoGAF and 4chan must uncover the truth behind a mysterious case known only as T.A.R.

Standalone complex type issue.
faceless007
AAA ETHER
(10-25-2012, 08:25 PM)

Originally Posted by Omikaru

He calls GAF's involvement in harassing her a "standalone complex type issue".

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/261531282293542912


Keep backtracking.

Edit: Beaten. :(

To be fair he's also apologized:

Ian Miles Cheong ‏@stillgray

@JaundicedMeme @shagg_187 Well, that's good. I apologize for the hyperbole. Some users seem to have taken matters into their own hands.
Jackpot
Junior Member
(10-25-2012, 08:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Green Scar

I think it's a line that's fairly easy to draw in a case-by-case manner, it's easy enough to figure out whether or not someone does any journalism, people are just lazy. Example: Patrick Klepek is clearly a gaming journalist. Jeff Gerstmann is clearly not.

Klepek tried to defend the idea that reviewers shouldn't have to finish the game they're reviewing. If that's your best example of a gaming journalist...
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
(10-25-2012, 08:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Balotelli

game journalists are mostly postpubescent babies who upon any sort of criticism get self inflated and pretend that their mystical job of playing video games all day is more important than the hard wrokers like myself and you who have to cook pizzas for a shitty boss who gropes your girlfriend and then offers her some MDMA all the while you cant do shit because if you say anything he'll fire you and you can see your world falling down around you so you start resorting to heroin but hey that doesnt take all the pain away and your girlfriend is secretly getting wet from his gropesthe more they go on because he is 5 years younger anjd has nice blonde hair with a little taft and god damnit your scruggly fucking hair just dont cut it anyumore

Take 5 and get some air.
Omikaru
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:25 PM)

Originally Posted by Empty

what does that even mean?

It's taken from the Ghost in the Shell anime. The very basic idea is that the similar actions of many people on modern communication mediums can be perceived as a concerted and organised effort by many when in reality each person is acting on their own without any direction from a management hierarchy.

It's an interesting idea with merit, but for him to blame GAF for harassing her as part of some campaign is ridiculous if he's then going to say it's people acting individually.

It's also not fair to accuse every GAF user of being complicit in a campaign to harass and abuse her, when in reality we're just discussing the issues at hand.
FlutterPuffs
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by hammster

Astounding

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/261531282293542912

Guy just made it worse.

Those who are tweeting for that girl's head should stop, obviously. Yet to accuse whole communities of partaking in the whole thing is pretty much a stupid, misguided move.

Ian Miles, I know you're reading this, F5-ing the thread every few minutes. Just apologise for this. Most of us weren't criticizing her in the first place, but instead angry at the whole situation.

Also it would be nice if she actually explains her relationship with Square Enix. You're right that we don't really know anything about it, but her silence over this issue isn't actually helping her at all.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
(10-25-2012, 08:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by faceless007

To be fair he's also apologized:

Ian Miles Cheong ‏@stillgray

@JaundicedMeme @shagg_187 Well, that's good. I apologize for the hyperbole. Some users seem to have taken matters into their own hands.

Welp. Now I'm criminally involved. I hear them coming...
shiptoncraig
Junior Member
(10-25-2012, 08:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by JimFear

So...

What about Giantbomb.com having good friends at double fine and harmonix... They review the games from both company.

So i guess at the end of the day we can see them as PR puppets from these company?

Show us the proof of inflated review scores and dubious Double Fine advertising and then you might have a point.


Let's not forget their conscious decision to not review Bastion after their Building the Bastion feature also.
NateDrake
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jackpot

Klepek tried to defend the idea that reviewers shouldn't have to finish the game they're reviewing. If that's your best example of a gaming journalist...

While that type of comment was dumb on his end, he does make quality and well-researched articles.
DangerStepp
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by shagg_187

Its a love/hate relationship. GAF is psychologically analyzing the situation while 4chan is observing the outcome. It's a test to see how long it takes until someone's willpower breaks down with the amount of sheer stress applied to the brain. When virtual life becomes bigger than reality, the voice of one man can echo as if its been said by millions.

It's a standalone complex type issue; representing "Ghost In the Shell: Standalone Complex" as a metaphor to his scenario. Similar to the game: cybercrime, espionage and terrorism plague a society lost between humanity and technology. NeoGAF and 4chan must uncover the truth behind a mysterious case known only as T.A.R.

Standalone complex type issue.

:lol

I'm not high enough to even begin here...
criesofthepast
Overdue ROH inductees:
Pavel Bure
Sergio Momesso
Kirk MacLean's wife
(10-25-2012, 08:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by shagg_187

Its a love/hate relationship. GAF is psychologically analyzing the situation while 4chan is observing the outcome. It's a test to see how long it takes until someone's willpower breaks down with the amount of sheer stress applied to the brain. When virtual life becomes bigger than reality, the voice of one man can echo as if its been said by millions.

It's a standalone complex type issue; representing "Ghost In the Shell: Standalone Complex" as a metaphor to his scenario. Similar to the game: cybercrime, espionage and terrorism plague a society lost between humanity and technology. NeoGAF and 4chan must uncover the truth behind a mysterious case known only as T.A.R.

Standalone complex type issue.

cRIPticon
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by JimFear

So...

What about Giantbomb.com having good friends at double fine and harmonix... They review the games from both company.

So i guess at the end of the day we can see them as PR puppets from these company?

Are their reviews accurate? Do they clearly cater to their friends vs keep their integrity in tact? I, for one, believe that they are pretty dead on in their assessment and don't let their personal relationships get in the way of honest reviews.
PrimeRib_
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jackpot

Klepek tried to defend the idea that reviewers shouldn't have to finish the game they're reviewing. If that's your best example of a gaming journalist...

This is a slippery slope, here. There have been some "people" that have admitted publicly to using cheat codes in reviewing a game, either in order to finish sections of the game, get additional lives, unlock progressive content in lieu of the time it would take to naturally obtain it, etc. Does the use of said codes, or any other means than how developers intended the general public to experience their content, challenge the integrity of a review?
clockpunk
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:29 PM)
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http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2008...rule_book.html

Has the full Ebert suggestions - fascinating read, which I strongly recommend all critics peruse at the first opportunity.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
(10-25-2012, 08:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by shagg_187

Its a love/hate relationship. GAF is psychologically analyzing the situation while 4chan is observing the outcome. It's a test to see how long it takes until someone's willpower breaks down with the amount of sheer stress applied to the brain. When virtual life becomes bigger than reality, the voice of one man can echo as if its been said by millions.

It's a standalone complex type issue; representing "Ghost In the Shell: Standalone Complex" as a metaphor to his scenario. Similar to the game: cybercrime, espionage and terrorism plague a society lost between humanity and technology. NeoGAF and 4chan must uncover the truth behind a mysterious case known only as T.A.R.

Standalone complex type issue.

I know of 5 good clinics in your area let's go get help for you son it's not too late!
Hot Coldman
Banned
(10-25-2012, 08:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jackpot

Klepek tried to defend the idea that reviewers shouldn't have to finish the game they're reviewing. If that's your best example of a gaming journalist...

I said that's his job, I made no attempt to say he was good at it.

Even though he is, in spite of an error he made years ago, as if that somehow sullies his body of work.
Patryn
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by LiquidMetal14

Good points.

We need to form a round table and figure this out. Proper names and titles instead of game journalists.....

-Game writers
-Sketch artists
-Sitcom penman
-Gaming poets

All I got for now.

Again, from the Brodeo: Professional Enthusiast.
Elginer
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by John Rabbit

the most hilarious thing about any of this, is that some of you were at some point duped into believing geoff keighley is anything more than a corporate shill/spokesmodel.

Yeps.
JChalmers
Junior Member
(10-25-2012, 08:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by RotBot

If you follow IncGamers links from 2010, most of them get redirected.

http://kotaku.com/5575883/mafia-ii-o...d-four-endings
http://n4g.com/news/592214/incgamers-mafia-ii-review
http://n4g.com/news/607287/incgamers...ury-first-look

It's simply a case of them revamping their site, thereby breaking old links. Happens all the time.

Yeah can confirm it was moving servers they lost all their old work...all my writing on there has been lost too! about a year and a halfs worth has been lost :(

Not her being blacklisted at all.
EternalGamer
Banned
(10-25-2012, 08:30 PM)

Originally Posted by cRIPticon

Are their reviews accurate? Do they clearly cater to their friends vs keep their integrity in tact? I, for one, believe that they are pretty dead on in their assessment and don't let their personal relationships get in the way of honest reviews.

I don't really care because I am over the music game thing anyway, but I find it pretty convenient that Jeff is not reviewing Dance Central 3 even though he has loads of problems with it. It does give him a convenient out to avoid alienating friends.

That's pretty small beer compared to most of the stuff being discussed in this thread, though.
Metalmurphy
Banned
(10-25-2012, 08:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by OldJadedGamer

No clue, but he inflated review scores at the magazine he worked for, to a publisher in order to gain favor from them in the future which obviously worked.

I would say that these shills if they are attacking it is for their own good but stuff like inflating review scores is for the good of the company they are promoting. Remember also, that Shane was hand picked by the publisher to be flown around the world to a posh company retreat (his own words) and write about MGS4. EGM did not pick him to go but Konami did because of his previous shilling for PS3 exclusives.

lol, Are you seriously trying to undermine them by quantifying their amount of "corruption"?

They were all extremely biased and were rewarded with jobs in the things they were biased for. It's as simple as that.

Theres the case you just mentioned, where he got rewarded with a job at Sony.

Then, when you work for a gaming website where you have to deal with all sorts of games and say something like "the Halo franchise is probably the only franchise in gaming that I care about", you get rewarded with a Job at Bungie.

When you continuously trash on Sonys casual games you get rewarded with a job at MS promoting Rare Kinect games.

When you give a launch game (PDZ) a 10/10 completely outside of all other reviews you get a job at MS.

+ the other 2 dudes I don't fully remember. It's the sad state of the gaming "journalists" we have. But 1Up was nothing but a sham job used as transition/booster to something better. The amount of people that got jobs that way is really telling.
madmackem
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:32 PM)
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Not as many white knights around on this one, colour me surprised. The whole issue of iffy reviewing has gathered pace of late, i hope this is the start of people being held accountable and a openness. I think it even goes as far as game video previews and them using the pc version with a 360 pad and not saying which version it is, thats a real bee in my bonnet that.
Ysiadmihi
Banned
(10-25-2012, 08:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jackpot

Klepek tried to defend the idea that reviewers shouldn't have to finish the game they're reviewing. If that's your best example of a gaming journalist...

IIRC, he also defended Dean Takahashi on GAF after he called the visual style of the characters in Space Marine a ripoff of Gears of War.
cRIPticon
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by EternalGamer

I don't really care because I am over the music game thing anyway, but I find it pretty convenient that Jeff is not reviewing Dance Central 3 even though he has loads of problems with it. It does give him a convenient out to avoid alienating friends.

That's pretty small beer compared to most of the stuff being discussed in this thread, though.

Believe what you will believe. They have already mentioned the game, with negative comments, on at least two Bombcasts, so it's not like they are hiding their feelings.
luxarific
Nork unification denier
(10-25-2012, 08:33 PM)
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So people have been complaining about gaming journalism = paid promotion for years, why has this suddenly blown up? Robert Florence's resignation? The hilariously pathetic Keighley pic?
EternalGamer
Banned
(10-25-2012, 08:34 PM)

Originally Posted by cRIPticon

Believe what you will believe. They have already mentioned the game, with negative comments, on at least two Bombcasts, so it's not like they are hiding their feelings.

That's fair. Like I said, it's a very minor point compared to a lot of the stuff being discussed here.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
(10-25-2012, 08:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Green Scar

This isn't even writers' faults, they know damn well what their jobs entail. It's on us- NeoGAF in particular is fucking awful when it comes to using calling anyone who writes about video games "game journalists".

I think this gets to the heart of why I'm so apathetic towards every new outrage on this subject on this website (although I am finding some amusement in this one). On average, GAF takes this stuff way more seriously than the people involved, and I just don't understand why.
Nihilistic Monk
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by cRIPticon

Are their reviews accurate? Do they clearly cater to their friends vs keep their integrity in tact? I, for one, believe that they are pretty dead on in their assessment and don't let their personal relationships get in the way of honest reviews.

Didn't they mention at one point there was a little falling out after the Brutal Legend review ran? It's mentioned on one of the GB doublefine videos. They got friendly again when Trenched was coming out I believe.
JDSN
Banned
(10-25-2012, 08:36 PM)
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Jeff Green

I've been very flip today (because I'm tired, on a plane and already a sellout) but this UK press flap is not funny, and a bit chilling. In any case, glad to see ethics being discussed at all, even if there's been some awful fallout. In the old days, shit wasnt even brought up

cRIPticon
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Metalmurphy

lol, Are you seriously trying to undermine them by quantifying their amount of "corruption"?

They were all extremely biased and were rewarded with jobs in the things they were biased for. It's as simple as that.

Theres the case you just mentioned, where he got rewarded with a job at Sony.

Then, when you work for a gaming website where you have to deal with all sorts of games and say something like "the Halo franchise is probably the only franchise in gaming that I care about", you get rewarded with a Job at Bungie.

When you continuously trash on Sonys casual games you get rewarded with a job at MS promoting Rare Kinect games.

When you give a launch game (PDZ) a 10/10 completely outside of all other reviews you get a job at MS.

+ the other 2 dudes I don't fully remember. It's the sade state of the gaming "journalists" we have. But 1Up was nothing but a sham job used as transition/booster to something better. The amount of people that got jobs that way is really telling.

What does Sade have to do with this? :D
Darklord
Banned
(10-25-2012, 08:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jackpot

Klepek tried to defend the idea that reviewers shouldn't have to finish the game they're reviewing. If that's your best example of a gaming journalist...

Klepek is an excellent journalist. He was the one who broke the whole IW/Activision thing.
Victrix
*beard*
(10-25-2012, 08:36 PM)
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Can we start calling it enthusiast press yet?
Fistwell
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by JimFear

So...

What about Giantbomb.com having good friends at double fine and harmonix... They review the games from both company.

So i guess at the end of the day we can see them as PR puppets from these company?

Yo, Balotelli, you forgot to log out of your main and back into your alt. ;)
DangerStepp
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Patryn

Again, from the Brodeo: Professional Enthusiast.

Jerk for the 9.5 make a living.. barely get by.. no take and all givin'.

...

9.5 is a great way to go... I'd hate to say '10', ethics, ya know?
RedNumberFive
Banned
(10-25-2012, 08:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by clockpunk

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2008...rule_book.html

Has the full Ebert suggestions - fascinating read, which I strongly recommend all critics peruse at the first opportunity.

An always excellent read from a man with true integrity. Ashame that it will be completely ignored by journalists who use childish excuses to rationalize their whorish, entitled behavior.
Jackpot
Junior Member
(10-25-2012, 08:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by PrimeRib_

This is a slippery slope, here. There have been some "people" that have admitted publicly to using cheat codes in reviewing a game, either in order to finish sections of the game, get additional lives, unlock progressive content in lieu of the time it would take to naturally obtain it, etc. Does the use of said codes, or any other means than how developers intended the general public to experience their content, challenge the integrity of a review?

We can save it for another thread but suffice to say he wasn't talking about games that can't be finished, games that are clearly broken as soon as you start playing or any of the easy examples. He was trying to make a case for doing it with your run-of-the-mill game. He made himself look a total ass.

And if you're forced to use cheats to get past a level then clearly something is wrong and it should feature prominently in the review as an unbeatable level. If it's cheats so they can blast through the game then they'll never have an accurate grasp of the difficulty curve or experience the frustration of cheap level design if it's present. Using cheats to unlock after-game bonuses that would require much grinding is fine. Using it for anything else is self-evidently wrong.

edit:

Originally Posted by Ysiadmihi

IIRC, he also defended Dean Takahashi on GAF after he called the visual style of the characters in Space Marine a ripoff of Gears of War.

Oh shit, that was much worse. Yeah, he's a write-off.

Klepek is an excellent journalist. He was the one who broke the whole IW/Activision thing.

Is there supposed to be a counter-argument in there somewhere? It'd be nice to have some paragon of actual journalism in gaming but Klepek is way down the list.
flyinpiranha
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by JimFear

So...

What about Giantbomb.com having good friends at double fine and harmonix... They review the games from both company.

So i guess at the end of the day we can see them as PR puppets from these company?

Friendships and working relationships are different. There is an air of professionalism assumed that those "friends" aren't bribing their way into good reviews/press.

In any industry you're going to have some crossover with business and personal but it's up to the individual to know when that line has to be drawn.

Are you really equating 'knowing somebody' to actually being on their payroll and/or accepting gifts for favorable coverage? I mean, really?
FStop7
Banned
(10-25-2012, 08:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Metalmurphy

1UP is definitely the worst offender, 3 or 4 ended up on Microsoft too including the infamous Halo fanboy.

Don't forget Tina Sanchez going to Infinity Ward.

VGJ = Outsourced PR.
Balotelli
Banned
(10-25-2012, 08:38 PM)
there shouldnt be friendships between them though, its ridiculous. Hunter S Thompson didn't go ahng with the fukin horse jockeys after he covered horse races
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Teknoman

I still dont see how mountain dew and doritos can be a good combo.

I know. What is this, 2006? It's Mtn Dew and Hot Cheetos now.
Quadraphonic
XBONE Detective
(10-25-2012, 08:39 PM)

Originally Posted by luxarific

So people have been complaining about gaming journalism = paid promotion for years, why has this suddenly blown up? Robert Florence's resignation? The hilariously pathetic Keighley pic?

People seem to forget this fact every few years. It's a news cycle. As long as unboxing videos get hits on YouTube, this will never end.
see5harp
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:39 PM)
I really don't care what they call themselves. As if calling themselves enthusiasts is suddenly going to make the coverage and content that much more serious. Wake the fuck up semantics is the dumbest part of the issue. Also stop being friends with baseball players Peter Gammons!! You can be a great writer and maintain relationships with people that you cover.
Risible
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by papersleeves

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...ble-of-doritos

That was a fantastic article.
Wildesy
Member
(10-25-2012, 08:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by cRIPticon

Believe what you will believe. They have already mentioned the game, with negative comments, on at least two Bombcasts, so it's not like they are hiding their feelings.

It's not unusual for them not to review a game anyway, so I don't think people need to jump to conclusions about it. They never did a review for Torchlight II even though they praised it quite a lot and seemingly have a good relationship with the Runic guys who brought in the game for them to show on a few occasions.

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