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CHEEZMO™
Obsidian fan
(07-18-2012, 07:07 PM)
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Has it been confirmed to be a suicide bomber? I've heard reports that someone planted a bomb in the room, Stauffenberg style.
~Devil Trigger~
Member
(07-18-2012, 07:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Solid warrior



The Damascus suicide bombing
Today's killing of Assad officials raises uncomfortable questions about the meaning and justifiability of Terrorism
By Glenn Greenwald


http://www.salon.com/2012/07/18/the_...icide_bombing/

how is it terrorism, in a war and the attack in question targeted the head of the opposing force?!
Jason's Ultimatum
Americans out of Mexico! The Border Tax Equity Act
(07-18-2012, 07:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jason Raize '75 - '04

I want to understand how the events of the last 10 years, especially the last 12 months, impacts geopolitical power both globally and regionally. Who gains from this? Who suffers?

You mean China? Forget about the Middle East. Just look at how China is screwing over Russia, and their geopolitical advances in Central Asia when it comes to natural gases and oil.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
(07-18-2012, 07:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by ~Devil Trigger~

how is it terrorism, in a war and the attack in question targeted the head of the opposing force?!

Because Glenn Greenwald is a tool. The last paragraph is full of painful attempts to after dancing around the issue, claim, oh I'm not really talking about this at all...even though I just was.
el retorno
Member
(07-18-2012, 07:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheNatural

I separate terrorism by defining it as the intentional attack on innocent civilians. By that definition, Syria has been engaging in terrorism for a while now, gunning down protesters.

Then again, when the Maryland sniper was going around killing people, they didn't call that terrorism.

Seems to be just a tired argument about semantics so its best to not use it at all anymore.

It is interesting because I don't consider Kamakazis suicide bombers. That word does have the association with Terrorism.

I do think terrorism is such a vague word. Regimes can justify any attack as terrorism. But then that leaves no room for legitament attacks on oppressive regimes. I don't know if attacking a military target really is terrorism. It is a dicey question and goes to uncomfortable places
TheNatural
My Member!
(07-18-2012, 07:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by el retorno de los sapos

It is interesting because I don't consider Kamakazis suicide bombers. That word does have the association with Terrorism.

I do think terrorism is such a vague word. Regimes can justify any attack as terrorism. But then that leaves no room for legitament attacks on oppressive regimes. I don't know if attacking a military target really is terrorism. It is a dicey question and goes to uncomfortable places

Yeah pretty much. It's being used as an out now by shitty regimes being overthrown. I think the only real legitimate use of this word is a person for whatever reason, killing people in a mass attack when the country is peaceful and not in a state of war. Basically a mass attack on innocent civilians.
WARCOCK
Banned
(07-18-2012, 07:13 PM)
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Fuck the west and their regional games. This shit is going to probably devolve like Lebanon. Thousands are going to die without any drastic change.
sflufan
Member
(07-18-2012, 07:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by WARCOCK

Fuck the west and their regional games. This shit is going to probably devolve like Lebanon. Thousands are going to die without any drastic change.

And you completely deny that this has anything to do with a proxy conflict between Sunni Arab states and Shiite Iran? It's ALL the fault of "the West."
Solid warrior
Banned
(07-18-2012, 07:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by ~Devil Trigger~

how is it terrorism, in a war and the attack in question targeted the head of the opposing force?!

Well, the same group who claims to be behind this attack has bombed civilian public places. I rarely hear a word of condemnation by the western government.

What's the most weird thing about today's suicide bombing is that the UK gov has condemned it while ex-US gov officials calls the one who did it a -martyr-.
WARCOCK
Banned
(07-18-2012, 07:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by sflufan

And you completely deny that this has anything to do with a proxy conflict between Sunni Arab states and Shiite Iran? It's ALL the fault of "the West."

Those tensions were ever there, the proper nudges and incentives were external i think.
phosphor112
Banned
(07-18-2012, 07:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheNatural

Fuck and a bus bomb went off in Israel and they're blaming Iran. Shit is about to get nuts.

It was in Bulgaria, not Israel. The targets were Israeli though.
Solid warrior
Banned
(07-18-2012, 07:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by sflufan

And you completely deny that this has anything to do with a proxy conflict between Sunni Arab states and Shiite Iran? It's ALL the fault of "the West."

The Western governments are pursuing a regime change on the basis of "Freedom & Democracy for the Syrian People". Not the oil & gas sheikdoms of tyranny. but Now it all makes sense. United Sunni States of America.
~Devil Trigger~
Member
(07-18-2012, 07:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Solid warrior

Well, the same group who claims to be behind this attack has bombed civilian public places. I rarely hear a word of condemnation by the western government.

What's the most weird thing about today's suicide bombing is that the UK gov has condemned it while ex-US gov officials calls the one who did it a -martyr-.

they denied it.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
(07-18-2012, 07:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Solid warrior

The Western governments are pursuing a regime change on the basis of "Freedom & Democracy for the Syrian People". Not the oil & gas sheikdoms of tyranny. but Now it all makes sense. United Sunni States of America.



BAIL OUT
Jackpot
Member
(07-18-2012, 07:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Solid warrior

The Western governments are pursuing a regime change on the basis of "Freedom & Democracy for the Syrian People". Not the oil & gas sheikdoms of tyranny. but Now it all makes sense. United Sunni States of America.

Do you still deny the massacres Assad's forces have carried out? The mass shellings of civilian populaces?
Omegasquash
Member
(07-18-2012, 07:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Manos: The Hans of Fate


BAIL OUT

Well said.
Solid warrior
Banned
(07-18-2012, 07:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jackpot

Do you still deny the massacres Assad's forces have carried out? The mass shellings of civilian populaces?

Be more specific. Name the massacres.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
(07-18-2012, 07:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Solid warrior

Be more specific. Name the massacres.

Everything that has occurred in the last few months. This isn't something needing a ton of specificity to find an example. It's not a needle in a haystack. It's more like non massacres being the needle in the haystack!
Omegasquash
Member
(07-18-2012, 07:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Solid warrior

Be more specific. Name the massacres.

Either this is level 3 troll powers, or you're just closing your eyes, plugging your ears and saying "lalalalalalala" over and over again. There's video out there. There are stories out there. There's first hand testimony out there.

C'mon man. Don't ask for details when it's already understood.

Edit: Cheezmo down under here is right....sigh.
Last edited by Omegasquash; 07-18-2012 at 07:55 PM. Reason: @ Cheezmo
CHEEZMO™
Obsidian fan
(07-18-2012, 07:54 PM)
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Please don't entertain the lunacy :/
Fularu
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(07-18-2012, 07:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Manos: The Hans of Fate

Everything that has occurred in the last few months. This isn't something needing a ton of specificity to find an example. It's not a needle in a haystack. It's more like non massacres being the needle in the haystack!

You do realise plenty of those were carried by the FSA and various "rebel" groups right? While the regime has done despicable things, lots of what it's been attributed wasn't done by it.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
(07-18-2012, 07:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by CHEEZMO™

Please don't entertain the lunacy :/

Fine, Cheezmo, open the doors to the Gold Mine I showed you earlier and begin.

Originally Posted by Fularu

You do realise plenty of those were carried by the FSA and various "rebel" groups right? While the regime has done despicable things, lots of what it's been attributed wasn't done by it.

The fact you acknowledge that alone is a world of difference.
gabbo
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(07-18-2012, 08:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fularu

You do realise plenty of those were carried by the FSA and various "rebel" groups right? While the regime has done despicable things, lots of what it's been attributed wasn't done by it.

Neither side should be free from criticism for their actions, regardless of their respective ends
Wazzim
Banned
(07-18-2012, 08:44 PM)
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Russia would be crazy to give up their only base in the ME without having another back-up.

Maybe it's time for them to negotiate with nations like Palestine and/or Iran in case of a rebel controlled Syria?
el retorno
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(07-18-2012, 08:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wazzim

Russia would be crazy to give up their only base in the ME without having another back-up.

Maybe it's time for them to negotiate with nations like Palestine and/or Iran in case of a rebel controlled Syria?

You do realize Palestine is under Israeli control. And turning their lot in with Iran. Good luck with that.

Russia screwed themselves. They probably could have secured the base with whatever new government if they weren't so head over heels in love with Assad
Rubenov
Member
(07-18-2012, 09:00 PM)

Originally Posted by WARCOCK

Those tensions were ever there, the proper nudges and incentives were external i think.

External from the entire Arab region that rose against their long-standing dictators.
Jason's Ultimatum
Americans out of Mexico! The Border Tax Equity Act
(07-18-2012, 09:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by el retorno de los sapos

You do realize Palestine is under Israeli control. And turning their lot in with Iran. Good luck with that.

Russia screwed themselves. They probably could have secured the base with whatever new government if they weren't so head over heels in love with Assad

It's not always bad news for Russia. they pretty much profited from the Libyan crisis by exporting more oil to Europe.
Wazzim
Banned
(07-18-2012, 09:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by el retorno de los sapos

You do realize Palestine is under Israeli control. And turning their lot in with Iran. Good luck with that.

Russia screwed themselves. They probably could have secured the base with whatever new government if they weren't so head over heels in love with Assad

Iran may be difficult because of their 'pride' but I can't see what Israel can do against Russia when it comes to a base in Palestine.
Cromat
Member
(07-18-2012, 09:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Solid warrior

The Western governments are pursuing a regime change on the basis of "Freedom & Democracy for the Syrian People". Not the oil & gas sheikdoms of tyranny. but Now it all makes sense. United Sunni States of America.

Don't you think the Arabs have some sort of responsibility on their current situation?
Is it all the West?

You're talking as if Assad could have kept on ruling Syria in prosperity for all eternity if it wasn't for the West. Face it, an entire country being run by a single family, essentially a Mafia, while the majority have their rights suppressed and their opinions ignored is not a viable proposition. It would have ended eventually.

If Bashar had any sense he would have transitioned his country into a secular democracy when he rose to power, but he preferred to keep his Mafia-style regime in place. He earned his eventual fate - exile for the rest of his life or being lynched by an angry mob. The sad thing is that Syrians will now have to suffer through years of instability and rule by crazy Islamists which are seen as the only alternative to the secular dictatorships. True pluralism has no chance in an atmosphere like that and Syria will suffer from sectarian violence and internal strife.

The Arab world needs to find a sustainable political model that can give Arabs the prosperity they deserve (and had in the Middle Ages). You can't blame the West for this. More people died in Syria since the uprising began than the entire Israeli-Arab conflict in the last 30 years.
xbhaskarx
(07-18-2012, 09:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by maquiladora

Syria information minister says the Damascus bombing was orchestrated by Turkey, Qatar, Saudi and Israeli intelligence, won't go unanswered.

A joint Arab-Israeli conspiracy!

I heard a rumor that CommieNazis were also involved...
Fularu
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(07-18-2012, 09:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by gabbo

Neither side should be free from criticism for their actions, regardless of their respective ends

The FSA gets a free pass in the west despite beeing little more than a ragtag of foreign fighters (pouring through Jordan, Irak and Lebannon mostly), real terrorrists and Muslim Brotherhood members. While there are some idealists fighting for "freedom" and "democracy" they are few and far between.

I thoroughly dread an islamists ruled Syria. Not only for my family, but for the country as a whole.
FACE
I'M STILL CASTILLE
(07-18-2012, 09:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Omegasquash

Either this is level 3 troll powers, or you're just closing your eyes, plugging your ears and saying "lalalalalalala" over and over again. There's video out there. There are stories out there. There's first hand testimony out there.

C'mon man. Don't ask for details when it's already understood.

Edit: Cheezmo down under here is right....sigh.

Have a look at this.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
(07-18-2012, 09:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by FACE

Have a look at this.

Yes, that was one of the dumbest threads in recent memory.
Ventrue
Member
(07-18-2012, 11:46 PM)
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Have we considered the possibility that Solid warrior is Bashar Al-Assad?
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
(07-19-2012, 12:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ventrue

Have we considered the possibility that Solid warrior is Bashar Al-Assad?

Yes, explicitly so in the last thread.
Solid warrior
Banned
(07-19-2012, 08:52 AM)
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I'm George W. Bush.
Mr_Moogle
Member
(07-19-2012, 09:12 AM)
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A little ashamed this thread title made me think this was about FFXII.
demolitio
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(07-19-2012, 09:36 AM)
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I wonder when Russia will cut its losses and back down so they don't make an unnecessary enemy out of a possible new Syrian government after this is all over with. I guess they'll wait until they really think Assad is done for and then jump ship to try and stay on the winning side at the end.

Throughout history, there's plenty of examples of just how powerful the will to win is in a conflict, even if it seems like an impossible task. As long as the people have the will and strength to fight through it all, they'll eventually wear down the enemy.

Originally Posted by phosphor112

It was in Bulgaria, not Israel. The targets were Israeli though.

Israeli youth at that. That's something that hits home to every citizen basically so it's easier to agree with any responses. They're blaming Iran (whether true or not, no one knows right now) but I guess Iran is hoping their proxies leave them free from blame. Bulgarian officials said the bomber had a fake Michigan driver's license though. *Note* Just judging on this incident alone and not the conflict in general.
Last edited by demolitio; 07-19-2012 at 09:41 AM.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
(07-19-2012, 09:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Solid warrior



The Damascus suicide bombing
Today's killing of Assad officials raises uncomfortable questions about the meaning and justifiability of Terrorism
By Glenn Greenwald


http://www.salon.com/2012/07/18/the_...icide_bombing/

Attacks aimed at military targets do not preclude them from being labeled terrorism. The attack on the Pentagon, even if it had done significant damage, wouldn't have disrupted the American military apparatus enough to result in key strategic gains for the attackers. It was a purely symbolic attack. Whether or not the attack on the officials was justifiable, it is not at all uncommon to target key members of the opposition to destabilize their ability to carry out further violence, if that is indeed the intended aim of the bomber. With that said, the means to bring it about are somewhat unsettling, if for no other reason than the associations of suicide bombing with terrorism.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
(07-19-2012, 09:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by demolitio

I wonder when Russia will cut its losses and back down so they don't make an unnecessary enemy out of a possible new Syrian government after this is all over with. I guess they'll wait until they really think Assad is done for and then jump ship to try and stay on the winning side at the end.

I'd wager chemical weapon deployment would accelerate the process, though I suspect Russia would still drag its feet. Safety to its citizens in Syria and its sea base would likely effect the process too. Non CW issues/events would be the fall of Damascus, the death of Bashir Assad, and attacks by Assad that could trigger outside intervention (say Turkey, Israel, or Jordan).
Rei_Toei
Fclvat sbe Pnanqn, ru?
(07-19-2012, 09:54 AM)
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That Russian 'base' is basically two piers and a couple of shacks, accomodating less then 50 people.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
(07-19-2012, 09:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by Rei_Toei

That Russian 'base' is basically two piers and a couple of shacks, accomodating less then 50 people.

Its the only Russian military site in the ME, plus how manyvs Russian civilians work and live in Syria?
leroidys
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(07-19-2012, 10:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fularu

The FSA gets a free pass in the west despite beeing little more than a ragtag of foreign fighters (pouring through Jordan, Irak and Lebannon mostly), real terrorrists and Muslim Brotherhood members. While there are some idealists fighting for "freedom" and "democracy" they are few and far between.

I thoroughly dread an islamists ruled Syria. Not only for my family, but for the country as a whole.

The FSA makes me EXTREMELY uneasy, but I don't think you can deny the right of the Syrian people to rise up against the regime that has sluaghtered tens of thousands.
goomba
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(07-19-2012, 10:22 AM)
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Sucks this is going on so long :(

Same for bahrain but funnily enough the western media ignores what's happening over there...
goomba
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(07-19-2012, 10:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by leroidys

The FSA makes me EXTREMELY uneasy, but I don't think you can deny the right of the Syrian people to rise up against the regime that has sluaghtered tens of thousands.

Be careful who you call "the Syrian people" . This is civil war , there are "Syrian people " on both sides , that's what makes it a civil war.
Übermatik
Member
(07-19-2012, 10:25 AM)
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Remarkable how the majority of news regarding international conflict, world affairs and war breaks on Twitter, a social networking site just 7 years old, used by pretty much everyone.

The day has come where we can hear the voices of all, broadcasting their opinions on what's happening in the world right now.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
(07-19-2012, 10:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by goomba

Sucks this is going on so long :(

Same for bahrain but funnily enough the western media ignores what's happening over there...

Oh I must have missed the recent use of heavy artillery and gunships in the last week or so, damn this TDKR hype.
goomba
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(07-19-2012, 10:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Manos: The Hans of Fate

Oh I must have missed the recent use of heavy artillery and gunships in the last week or so, damn this TDKR hype.

Both conflicts have been going on for about the same amount of time. I know Syria is much worse but don't you think the US support of the Bahrian regime against their uprising looks biased when compared to how they back the uprising in Syria ?
leroidys
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(07-19-2012, 10:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by goomba

Be careful who you call "the Syrian people" . This is civil war , there are "Syrian people " on both sides , that's what makes it a civil war.

I don't see how this is relevant to my post.
goomba
Member
(07-19-2012, 10:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by leroidys

I don't see how this is relevant to my post.

Because you implied all the Syrian people support the rebels.

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