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Plum
Member
(10-07-2017, 02:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kyoufu

Because like I said, there are also a lot of fans and modern gamers in general who want to see it with "modern" game design elements, like an action-based battle system.

Also like I said, turn-based RPGs are still 'modern'. People still go out and buy them in droves and there's plenty of examples of that happening very recently. Hell, I completely forgot to mention Pokemon in my original post; that's still entirely turn-based.

I've yet to see evidence that enough people would have been disappointed by a turn based RPG staying turn based to make FFVIIr suffer greatly because of it. An expanded turn-based battle system for FFVII would both differentiate itself from mainline FF and KH and keep it in line with what the actual game was at the start. As you said, this seems to be entirely on the development team, not fan desires. Fans weren't asking for a FFVII remake with KH gameplay, they were just asking for a FFVII remake.
xviper
Member
(10-07-2017, 02:40 PM)
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FFXV was the only FF game i played ( i remember playing a few minutes of FFX on ps2but i quit because of the turn based combat)

was FF7 like XV ?? MMO-like quests ?
ethomaz
Banned
(10-07-2017, 02:41 PM)

Originally Posted by Kyoufu

Because like I said, there are also a lot of fans and modern gamers in general who want to see it with "modern" game design elements, like an action-based battle system.

What makes action-based battle system “modern” over turn-based battle system?

That is suck nonsense.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
(10-07-2017, 02:41 PM)

Originally Posted by GoldStarz

Do you think people will ever realize that Nomura isn't the sole person to blame for his games and that Square-Enix's piss-poor management plays a huge role in that?

i'm joking of course, people couldn't even figure that out even when it was revealed they put nomura's name on the remake before even telling him he'd be involved in it

Wasn't SE also being run by an incredibly incompetent leader at the time the shift happened? All I remember is the company basically forcing the most ridiculous design ideas onto devs (f2p Just Cause, Triad wars etc) and causing themselves no end of financial woes.
shimon
Member
(10-07-2017, 02:42 PM)
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Smart man,that's pretty much it.
Gbraga
Member
(10-07-2017, 02:43 PM)
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Really nice and respectful answer.
LordRaptor
Member
(10-07-2017, 02:44 PM)
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hesrightyouknow.jpeg

It is almost impossible for whatever FF7RE ends up being for it to live up to fan expectations. At best its solid enough that old fans dont utterly despise it, but attracts a bunch of new fans who never played the original.
ryushe
Member
(10-07-2017, 02:45 PM)
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I'm curious but where did this recent Tabata hate come from?

Sure, FFXV wasn't a masterpiece (personally I really enjoyed it) but I felt he did as best he could given the state that game was originally in. Not only that, Crisis Core is perhaps the best thing to come out of FFVII.

I actually didn't like Type-0, but I feel his track record is better than most.
BassForever
Member
(10-07-2017, 02:45 PM)
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I mean considering the amount of scrutinty he got for ff15 (regardless of your thoughts on the games quality) can you imagine the back lash when ff7r finally hits the market? You wanna talk about controversy ff7r could be the greatest game ever made and people will still trash it for whatever changes it makes.
Gbraga
Member
(10-07-2017, 02:47 PM)
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If fighting Sephiroth in KH is already so godlike, I can't imagine how it'll be in an action rpg version of FFVII.

Please, Square-Enix, don't fuck this up, finish tihs damn game.
Peltz
Member
(10-07-2017, 02:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kyoufu

That's where Nomura and Kitase's artistic vision that I mentioned comes in. Nomura has always seen FFVII as an action game.

Why though?

Originally Posted by Plum

Also like I said, turn-based RPGs are still 'modern'. People still go out and buy them in droves and there's plenty of examples of that happening very recently. Hell, I completely forgot to mention Pokemon in my original post; that's still entirely turn-based.

I've yet to see evidence that enough people would have been disappointed by a turn based RPG staying turn based to make FFVIIr suffer greatly because of it. An expanded turn-based battle system for FFVII would both differentiate itself from mainline FF and KH and keep it in line with what the actual game was at the start. As you said, this seems to be entirely on the development team, not fan desires. Fans weren't asking for a FFVII remake with KH gameplay, they were just asking for a FFVII remake.

I agree. Turn based combat still can be part of a big budget game even. FFVII remake could have even ushered in a resurgence of turn based gameplay in the AAA Japanese games industry.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
(10-07-2017, 02:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by ryushe

I'm curious but where did this recent Tabata hate come from?

Sure, FFXV wasn't a masterpiece (personally I really enjoyed it) but I felt he did as best he could given the state that game was originally in. Not only that, Crisis Core is perhaps the best thing to come out of FFVII.

I actually didn't like Type-0, but I feel his track record is better than most.

Final Fantasy's greatest strength and weakness is that it dramatically changes with each new entry. This will lead to the series staying fresh with new ideas, but will also lead to some fans feeling alienated. The alienated fans will place their blame on the director of the game. (in this case, Tabata).
Plum
Member
(10-07-2017, 02:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Peltz

Why though?

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Kyoufu
(10-07-2017, 02:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by ethomaz

What makes action-based battle system “modern” over turn-based battle system?

That is suck nonsense.

Most, if not all of the AAA console RPGs today have action-based battle systems set in a large explorable sandbox, including Final Fantasy's latest flagship entry. That's the modern AAA video game trend today.
ethomaz
Banned
(10-07-2017, 02:57 PM)

Originally Posted by Kyoufu

Most, if not all of the AAA console RPGs today have action-based battle systems set in a large explorable sandbox, including Final Fantasy's latest flagship entry. That's the modern AAA video game trend today.

So because single game design choice it’s become “modern”.

Let’s forget Persona 5, Dragon Quest XI, XCOM, Bravely Default, Pokemon, etc even exists lol
jjonez18
Member
(10-07-2017, 02:57 PM)
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Final Fantasy VII-2: Spira Rising

Confirmed.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 02:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by xviper

FFXV was the only FF game i played ( i remember playing a few minutes of FFX on ps2but i quit because of the turn based combat)

was FF7 like XV ?? MMO-like quests ?

FFVII like Chrono Trigger has some of the best side quests in JRPG. They are either designed with strong narrative context, challenging but rewarding optional bosses or hidden, powerful items, fun mini-games, secret places to explore or random/interesting shit to find.
Plum
Member
(10-07-2017, 03:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kyoufu

Most, if not all of the AAA console RPGs today have action-based battle systems set in a large explorable sandbox, including Final Fantasy's latest flagship entry. That's the modern AAA video game trend today.

If we're talking Western RPGs then yeah, sure (thought XCOM and Mario Rabbids are turn-based RPGs in many ways), but when we take into account Japan as well you couldn't be more wrong. Persona 5, SMT, Dragon Quest, FFXHD and Pokemon are all highly successful turn-based JRPGs out today. Sure they're not 'AAA' but that's not a good reason to make such a surefire hit as a FFVII remake into an action game.
firelogic
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(10-07-2017, 03:02 PM)
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I wouldn't want him to head up a FFVII remake either. Hell, I'd rather he wasn't involved in any more FF games period.
Kyoufu
(10-07-2017, 03:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by ethomaz

So because single game design choice it’s become “modern”.

Let’s forget Persona 5, Dragon Quest XI, XCOM, Bravely Default, Pokemon, etc even exists lol

I think it's great that DQ and Persona have remained turn-based, but their sales in the west don't come close to the action-based RPGs of late.

But even before this trend, Nomura wanted to make an action-based FF anyway. It started with Versus and now FFVIIR.
BasilZero
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(10-07-2017, 03:06 PM)
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The way things are going, it will be hilarious if Tabata gets assigned to take over Nomura on FFVII remake lmao.



Personally I wouldnt want him to work on FFVII either, despite liking FFXV.


He should stick to FF Type series or make the new IP he was talking about.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
(10-07-2017, 03:08 PM)
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The only factor in determining whether a Final Fantasy game is turn based or action based is the development team. Square Enix doesnt care, they actually gave FFXV a lower sales projection because they were afraid Final Fantasy fans would react negatively to an action based combat system.
legacyzero
Banned
(10-07-2017, 03:09 PM)
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I can respect that. That’s a huge weight to carry. I don’t think I’d want it either. Maybe with the VIII remake??
Shredderi
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(10-07-2017, 03:16 PM)
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Yeah, that makes him smart.
Spiritwalker
Member
(10-07-2017, 03:16 PM)
Thank goodness.
Dangansona
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(10-07-2017, 03:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mifec

Don't say disgusting things like this even as a joke.

While we are at it how about not using images of Pepe holding a gun?
LordKasual
Member
(10-07-2017, 03:34 PM)
Wise man.

If I were Nomura and Kitase, i'd be putting in as much work as possible to make sure everyone knows that FF7R isn't going to be a 1:1 remake, or anywhere close to one. Just to dispell the expectations.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
(10-07-2017, 03:35 PM)
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Also i think we should give Tabata credit here because he handled this response perfectly.
entremet
Member
(10-07-2017, 03:36 PM)
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Honestly, this game is vaporware for at this point. SE never learns.
Strings
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(10-07-2017, 03:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Blobbers

It would not be fair to Tabata if they stuck him on another remake. After doing stellar work with Crisis Core, Type-0 and FF XV, he deserves to make his new IP.



You might as well have mentioned his stellar work on 3rd Birthday and KH Coded.
Toth
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(10-07-2017, 03:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Khalme

A cinematic action game starring Genesis and Lightning as a time-traveling duo fighting for the fate of the multiverse/lifestream against Bhunivelze.
Or something.

Did XV have anything FFXIII related? That analogy does not work. I said Toriyama as event director only.
kitsunelaine
Banned
(10-07-2017, 03:53 PM)
I'm surprised at the ammount of people who want VII to be a retread of the same mecahnics. If you want that, you can just play the same game again. It'll always be there. I'm up for experiencing the story and characters in a new way, personally, for worse or for better.
raven777
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(10-07-2017, 04:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Strings



You might as well have mentioned his stellar work on 3rd Birthday and KH Coded.

3rd birthday is probably his best work in terms of pure combat gameplay if you consider the system it was on. :P
wol93
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 04:22 PM)

Originally Posted by M_Night

Tabatas's FFVII Remake.

-Midgar segment replaced with CGI film: Avalanche:FFVII
-only control Cloud
-Episode Barrett
-Episode Tifa
-Episode RedXIII
-Explorable Towns and Cities replaced with bandit camps on the world map
-Epic cutscenes left unfinished
-Unfinished 2nd half of the game patched together with an on the rails train and loading screens

Etc...

This
Rick1o1
Member
(10-07-2017, 04:23 PM)
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This really is one of those games/remakes that is doomed to fail.

Change too much and people will be upset, change too little and people will be upset. There is no right way to do this.

The original is one of my favorite games of all time and I'm interested to see what they do with it. But after hearing that it might be episodic, I'm taking the wait and see approach.
benzy
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(10-07-2017, 04:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by M_Night

Tabatas's FFVII Remake.

-Midgar segment replaced with CGI film: Avalanche:FFVII
-only control Cloud
-Episode Barrett
-Episode Tifa
-Episode RedXIII
-Explorable Towns and Cities replaced with bandit camps on the world map
-Epic cutscenes left unfinished
-Unfinished 2nd half of the game patched together with an on the rails train and loading screens

Etc...

This would only happen if Square forced Tabata to release the game in 3 years after restarting from scratch. Meanwhile Nomura gets no time restrictions so VIIR will never see the light of day.
Koozek
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(10-07-2017, 04:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by benzy

This would only happen if Square forced Tabata to release the game in 3 years after restarting from scratch. Meanwhile Nomura gets no time restrictions so VIIR will never see the light of day.

Mediking
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(10-07-2017, 04:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by ryushe

I'm curious but where did this recent Tabata hate come from?

Sure, FFXV wasn't a masterpiece (personally I really enjoyed it) but I felt he did as best he could given the state that game was originally in. Not only that, Crisis Core is perhaps the best thing to come out of FFVII.

I actually didn't like Type-0, but I feel his track record is better than most.

I don't hate Tabata.

I don't hate FFXV.

I don't hate Type-O.

But...

Its kinda insulting that FFXV launched for full price and more considering how incomplete it is. Anybody who beat it near launch deserves an award.

Type-O is very bad. I tried to hang with it but its bad. Too big a cast.

Tabata has also said some very....ummm... interesting things about FFXV in the past.
theofficefan99
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 04:56 PM)
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Tabata is not a good director, period. He's had a full opportunity numerous times before XV, idk why people act like XV is his first time being a director. He's also done Type-0, 3rd Birthday, and Crisis Core. All of which are terrible outside of their production values.
Helacious
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(10-07-2017, 05:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by theofficefan99

Tabata is not a good director, period. He's had a full opportunity numerous times before XV, idk why people act like XV is his first time being a director. He's also done Type-0, 3rd Birthday, and Crisis Core. All of which are terrible outside of their production values.

Crisis Core was fun, except for Genesis that was an awful shoehorned character that should never have existed.
Keym
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(10-07-2017, 05:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by M_Night

Tabatas's FFVII Remake.

-Midgar segment replaced with CGI film: Avalanche:FFVII
-only control Cloud
-Episode Barrett
-Episode Tifa
-Episode RedXIII
-Explorable Towns and Cities replaced with bandit camps on the world map
-Epic cutscenes left unfinished
-Unfinished 2nd half of the game patched together with an on the rails train and loading screens

Etc...

rayman1900
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(10-07-2017, 05:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by ArkhamFantasy

Final Fantasy's greatest strength and weakness is that it dramatically changes with each new entry. This will lead to the series staying fresh with new ideas, but will also lead to some fans feeling alienated. The alienated fans will place their blame on the director of the game. (in this case, Tabata).

Yeah, thus the FF dicease.
BasilZero
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(10-07-2017, 05:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by theofficefan99

Tabata is not a good director, period. He's had a full opportunity numerous times before XV, idk why people act like XV is his first time being a director. He's also done Type-0, 3rd Birthday, and Crisis Core. All of which are terrible outside of their production values.

Type-0 was kinda meh I agree.


Havent played 3rd birthday but CC was awesome yo.


Edit: Cant believe Tabata worked on KH Recoded lmao. That was the worst game in the series.
ryushe
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(10-07-2017, 05:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mediking

Its kinda insulting that FFXV launched for full price and more considering how incomplete it is. Anybody who beat it near launch deserves an award.

That has more to do with the Square than with the man and his team, though.

Like I said before, he was given the monumental task to finish and ship what was essentially vaporware and while XV isn't perfect, it turned out much better than I ever thought it would have.
Korigama
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(10-07-2017, 05:22 PM)
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Good. Anyone other than him or Toriyama if Nomura winds up failing to finish this like he did Versus.
Sjefen
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(10-07-2017, 05:23 PM)
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I agree it will be hard to get 100% approval rating, but I am glad someone is is man enough to try.
Tyaren
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(10-07-2017, 05:27 PM)
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Nomura is messing this one up too, isn't he, lol?
Neon Demon
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 05:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Khalme

A cinematic action game starring Genesis and Lightning as a time-traveling duo fighting for the fate of the multiverse/lifestream against Bhunivelze.
Or something.

. I would actually buy this.
Mediking
Member
(10-07-2017, 06:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by ryushe

That has more to do with the Square than with the man and his team, though.

Like I said before, he was given the monumental task to finish and ship what was essentially vaporware and while XV isn't perfect, it turned out much better than I ever thought it would have.

But now I'm curious... what did you like about FFXV? Like specifically? I mean I do think Noctis is cool. I hate how Luna was treated in the game. Same goes for Cor and other characters. I do like the combat alot.
Lynchian
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(10-07-2017, 06:02 PM)
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Did I make it in time for the Nomura / Tabata bashing???

edit: YES!

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