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Monad
Member
(10-07-2017, 05:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by l2ounD

I dont know why you switched cars we were talking about the Prelude.

I think the Megane looks great.

I actually really like this shot, since the driver looks believable



vs whats going on here

I switched to the Megane to compare with the GT: S shot.

The driver in the Prelude is wearing a red Ninja outfit, but you can change the pilot gear. Here is my Prelude with the same VIP outfit of the Megane shot:

Synth
Member
(10-07-2017, 05:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by l2ounD

I dont know why you switched cars we were talking about the Prelude.

Take a quick moment to stop and consider the trajectory of your recent posts...

You've just complained about Monad switching to a different car to make a comparison between the ingame model in FM7 and GTS. Only a few posts back you not only substituted in a sports prototype car to make your point... you also took it from photo travel mode. You then went on to make a comparison with GT5P, again opting to swap the Prelude out for a BMW 135i.

Now, the moment Monad switches the example car for one that's actually available for comparison across the different games, you throw you hands up like "why you switching cars bro?". Can you not see how unreasonable that is?

Fact is the Prelude looks like a standard car in real life compared to the more attractive and complex designs of the other cars that have been mentioned, and so it's not a surprise that it you want to talk shit about the game's graphics, it's a good car to home in on.

Spukc
Member
(10-07-2017, 05:06 AM)
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I like singleplayer content and the best gfx
Still gta sport? I allready own forza 6 and horizon 3
Not playing that buggy mess game that just came out.i sold the first one after 1 week.
Remij
Member
(10-07-2017, 05:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by Spukc

I like singleplayer content and the best gfx
Still gta sport? I allready own forza 6 and horizon 3
Not playing that buggy mess game that just came out.i sold the first one after 1 week.

Yea if you already have Forza 6 and Horizon 3, I don't see what's wrong with giving Gran Turismo Sport a try. It's going to look and feel a lot different from Forza 6 than 7 does, obviously.

It's a more online focused game though, keep in mind.
Synth
Member
(10-07-2017, 05:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Spukc

I like singleplayer content and the best gfx
Still gta sport? I allready own forza 6 and horizon 3
Not playing that buggy mess game that just came out.i sold the first one after 1 week.

If single player content is important to you, I'd probably wait for reviews, because that certainly doesn't appear to be the focus for GTS.
kyser73
Member
(10-07-2017, 05:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Spukc

I like singleplayer content and the best gfx
Still gta sport? I allready own forza 6 and horizon 3
Not playing that buggy mess game that just came out.i sold the first one after 1 week.

Download the GTS demo for free and see if you like it?

Re: car & track count - they'll come as DLC. It's pretty obvious GTS will be the only GT release this gen - possibly the last 'full' release if the engine is scalable and PS5 has full BC with PS4, they can just keep on releasing season pass updates for content & even engine upgrades.
ssolitare
Member
(10-07-2017, 05:21 AM)
how many new cars did Forza 7 add?
Rayge
Member
(10-07-2017, 05:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by kyser73

Download the GTS demo for free and see if you like it?

Re: car & track count - they'll come as DLC. It's pretty obvious GTS will be the only GT release this gen - possibly the last 'full' release if the engine is scalable and PS5 has full BC with PS4, they can just keep on releasing season pass updates for content & even engine upgrades.

If I played on console I'd probably be all over GTS. Seems like they are putting more focus on the quality of their vehicles both on physics and modelling rather than trying to have a stupid amount of cars right out the gate. If the engine is scalable then that's even better. This could be set up as a racing platform with car updates rather than them having to numbered releases.
l2ounD
Member
(10-07-2017, 05:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by Synth

Take a quick moment to stop and consider the trajectory of your recent posts...

You've just complained about Monad switching to a different car to make a comparison between the ingame model in FM7 and GTS. Only a few posts back you not only substituted in a sports prototype car to make your point... you also took it from photo travel mode. You then went on to make a comparison with GT5P, again opting to swap the Prelude out for a BMW 135i.

Now, the moment Monad switches the example car for one that's actually available for comparison across the different games, you throw you hands up like "why you switching cars bro?". Can you not see how unreasonable that is?

Fact is the Prelude looks like a standard car in real life compared to the more attractive and complex designs of the other cars that have been mentioned, and so it's not a surprise that it you want to talk shit about the game's graphics, it's a good car to home in on.

You should take a quick moment to stop and read what my post actually are.

Asking why he switch off from the Prelude is complaining? We were discussing the quality of it.

What photo travel mode photo are you talking about?

The GT5p link was used to look at the quality of the modeling/material aesthetic not the actual car.. which I say is different.

And the Prelude is a beautiful car! Forza just did a poor job of capturing the beauty :p
Synth
Member
(10-07-2017, 06:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by l2ounD

You should take a quick moment to stop and read what my post actually are.

Asking why he switch off from the Prelude is complaining? We were discussing the quality of it.

What photo travel mode photo are you talking about?

The GT5p link was used to look at the quality of the modeling/material aesthetic not the actual car.. which I say is different.

And the Prelude is a beautiful car! Forza just did a poor job of capturing the beauty :p

Complaing, or questioning. Substitute as necessary.

If you re-read my post you'll see that I never claimed the GT5P comparison was photo travel. I was referring to the first image you put up as a comparison.

To but it simply, Monad would have switched car models because the Prelude wasn't available for direct comparisons between Forza 7 and GTS, otherwise I imagine he would have instead opted to grab an ingame representation of the Prelude to use, which would have made infinitely more sense than the two comparisons you made. Neither was made in good faith, and you know that. If you were talking about the quality of materials and shading, then you wouldn't even be discussing a single car to make a "standard cars" parallel. That's a modelling discussion, otherwise switching the car would have no meaning.

And the car looks kinda shit regardless imo. In regards to the bodywork, there's pretty much no detail to even represent. It's represented in FM7 about as well as other cars are. It's just inherently basic.
l2ounD
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by Synth

If you re-read my post you'll see that I never claimed the GT5P comparison was photo travel. I was referring to the first image you put up as a comparison.

If you re-read my posts you'll see that I never put up that image.

And if you think the Prelude is representative of car quality in FM7 then thats cool.
Synth
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by l2ounD

If you re-read my posts you'll see that I never put up that image.

And if you think the Prelude is representative of car quality in FM7 then thats cool.

Oh shit, my bad, haha. Yea, disregard my mention of that car/image then. Sorry.

And yea, I would say its representative. Not in the way you'd take that, but more that all the cars sit below what Polyphony puts out in regards to attention to detail and accuracy, but more basic car exteriors will naturally lead to more basic representations in-game also. It's not like GT5's standard cars where the premiums would be like 90% reflective of the real thing, and standards more like 40% or lower. FM7's would be more like an 80% across the board, with better looking cars looking better as a result, and the prelude isn't one of them (as per the image of the actual car I posted before).

But yea, there's no GTS version of the car to compare in-game, and contrasting with GT5P's BMW 135i would only make sense, if you were also usng FM7's portrayal of that car. That is why Monad picked a car where that would actually be possible.
Crayon
(10-07-2017, 07:24 AM)
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I'm of two minds on the prelude. On one hand, I see how it could be better. In the other... Fuck it. Looks great. Throw that bitch in there and get to work on the next car. I'm sure gts' prelude would look a little bit better but it doesn't even exist.
.
.
Edit
.

The preloaded gts demo can be run in a kind of attract mode and screenshots are coming out.




Looks really good.
l2ounD
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by Synth

And yea, I would say its representative. Not in the way you'd take that, but more that all the cars sit below what Polyphony puts out in regards to attention to detail and accuracy, but more basic car exteriors will naturally lead to more basic representations in-game also. It's not like GT5's standard cars where the premiums would be like 90% reflective of the real thing, and standards more like 40% or lower. FM7's would be more like an 80% across the board, with better looking cars looking better as a result, and the prelude isn't one of them (as per the image of the actual car I posted before).

But yea, there's no GTS version of the car to compare in-game, and contrasting with GT5P's BMW 135i would only make sense, if you were also usng FM7's portrayal of that car. That is why Monad picked a car where that would actually be possible.

I'd agree the Prelude body is "basic" somewhat, I still find it beautiful. But that means you really need to nail the materials to make it look good. Where did this headlight go from FM4?



But anyways ill stop talking about the Prelude
Synth
Member
(10-07-2017, 08:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by l2ounD

I'd agree the Prelude body is "basic" somewhat, I still find it beautiful. But that means you really need to nail the materials to make it look good. Where did this headlight go from FM4?



But anyways ill stop talking about the Prelude

Well, the headlight itself is clearly still there. It looks different from those FM4 shots mostly as a result of less pronounced reflections across it. The follow-up image that Monad had posted was a better comparison due to lighting being less muted.

Forza Motorsport 4 specifically relied on really overpronouncing specular highlights in order to give an exaggerated impression. In some cases (such as the headlights you're citing), it actually worked out quite well. As a whole though, I'd actually consider it to be the worst Forza Motorsport post-FM2 for its handling of materials. I just snapped this shot for example of the prelude on track in gameplay. You can see immediately what this exaggerated highlight does to the overall image (especially the road surface), and the look of materials for the car as a whole.

Monad
Member
(10-07-2017, 08:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Synth

Forza Motorsport 4 specifically relied on really overpronouncing specular highlights in order to give an exaggerated impression. In some cases (such as the headlights you're citing), it actually worked out quite well. As a whole though, I'd actually consider it to be the worst Forza Motorsport post-FM2 for its handling of materials. I just snapped this shot for example of the prelude on track in gameplay. You can see immediately what this exaggerated highlight does to the overall image (especially the road surface), and the look of materials for the car as a whole.

Agree.

I never liked the exaggerated overall look of FM4, despite it is my favorite Motorsport to date.
eso76
(10-07-2017, 08:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by cooldawn

Shiney tarmac isn't unheard of. It depends on the mix and age/use. The reflective parts are more often than not where tyres have made contact the most through the years.

Yeah, even Forza has been doing this for years, again though it's just speculars.
What pgr4 did was different, it was the same reflections you'd see on a wet road, only a lot more subtle and blurrier and it would naturally only become visible when the street was in shadow with something much brighter above.
Can't find a pic, means I'll have to take my own later :D

As for the prelude in FM7 I think something simply went wrong with the materials, the only wrong thing about it is the smooth surface of the plastic in front of the headlight, really.

I was debating downloading the GTS demo: will take all day and night to download on my connection and I won't have time to play it when it's unlocked next week anyway. But if I can run the attract mode until then woohoo.
Fredrik
Banned
(10-07-2017, 08:49 AM)

Originally Posted by Monad



GT:S clearly cut the high quality model (just look the edges around the wheel arches):

Is the pic at the bottom GTS?? Aliasing plus low poly count. What's going on here? Looks way better in every other pic I've seen.
Pepto
Banned
(10-07-2017, 08:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fredrik

Is the pic at the bottom GTS?? Aliasing plus low poly count. What's going on here? Looks way better in every other pic I've seen.

That is from the beta. All of the issues will be fixed in the final version.
Fredrik
Banned
(10-07-2017, 08:59 AM)

Originally Posted by Pepto

That is from the beta. All of the issues will be fixed in the final version.

There rest of the pics shown so far has been from the beta too. Why is this so bad? Could anyone with the beta take some more side shots?
c0de
next time I babble on about sales parity, just quote my tag back at me thx friend
(10-07-2017, 09:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Pepto

That is from the beta. All of the issues will be fixed in the final version.

Ah, insiders are also in this thread! That's why I love gaf.
ZeusII
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 09:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fredrik

There rest of the pics shown so far has been from the beta too. Why is this so bad? Could anyone with the beta take some more side shots?

Thats from an old beta, that side camera was removed on the later ones.
Monad
Member
(10-07-2017, 10:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by ZeusII

Thats from an old beta, that side camera was removed on the later ones.

We already know why. XD
eso76
(10-07-2017, 11:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Pepto

That is from the beta. All of the issues will be fixed in the final version.

Originally Posted by ZeusII

Thats from an old beta, that side camera was removed on the later ones.

Well..I guess that's a way to fix the issue :)
l2ounD
Member
(10-07-2017, 11:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by Monad

We already know why. XD

haha :)

Thats definitely a rough looking pic. It doesnt even look like it has glass on the door which I've never seen. I knew you can crack open the head/taillight but never seen the door missing its glass.
leeh
Member
(10-07-2017, 12:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Monad



GT:S clearly cut the high quality model (just look the edges around the wheel arches):

This is why I don't believe GAFs shilling of every PS4 racer, cause everytime I play one on a friend's PS4 on the big screen I'm left disappointed.

Looking at you DC.
nkarafo
Member
(10-07-2017, 12:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Monad


I love the self-shadowing on the car here.
benzy
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(10-07-2017, 02:41 PM)
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Jamesways
Member
(10-07-2017, 02:48 PM)
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What a time to be a racing fan! These games look so damn good now.

Can't wait to read this shitshow of a thread in two weeks! I'll go back to posting MotoGP and WRC pics as a break in the bickering.
ShapeGSX
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(10-07-2017, 02:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by l2ounD

I dont know why you switched cars we were talking about the Prelude.

We should compare it to the Prelude in GTS.
ShapeGSX
Member
(10-07-2017, 03:00 PM)
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What we should all be annoyed about is that Honda stopped making the Prelude.
eso76
(10-07-2017, 03:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by ssolitare

how many new cars did Forza 7 add?

Yeah I'd like to know as well.
New as in new to the series including Horizon.

Also do all 700+ cars really have a modelled engine under the hood in Forza vista ??
That would be just crazy honestly. Appreciated but crazy. I'm sure T10 regrets making that choice and now having to stick to it.
Drackhorn
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(10-07-2017, 03:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by benzy



Sold.
Noobcraft
Member
(10-07-2017, 03:21 PM)

Originally Posted by eso76

Yeah I'd like to know as well.
New as in new to the series including Horizon.

Also do all 700+ cars really have a modelled engine under the hood in Forza vista ??
That would be just crazy honestly. Appreciated but crazy. I'm sure T10 regrets making that choice and now having to stick to it.

I don't think all cars have modeled engine bays, but I think most do. In previous FM games the Abarth 500 never had a modeled engine.
transformer
Member
(10-07-2017, 03:43 PM)

Originally Posted by ssolitare

how many new cars did Forza 7 add?

Forza 6 launched with ~450 cars, Forza 7 has ~700.
benzy
Member
(10-07-2017, 05:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Monad

I think we have a different concepts of what a hight quality model is.

For me is more than top-notch lighting and realistic shaders, is the polygonal count of the car itself and the way it's representated in the gameplay.

Gran Turismo has the best car models, there's no doubt about it, but during the game, quality is drastically reduced in order to maintain performance, and can be easily detected in direct feed content.

FM7 (at least on PC and One X) shows the high polygonal model (the same you look in Forzavista mode) during gameplay, with the full interior view visible from the outside.

IMO, this is a high quality model, I can enjoy it while I have the controller/wheel on my hands during gameplay, not just in photomode or replays:

ttps://farm5.staticflickr.com/4508/37510433942_5673e3620a_o.png

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4507/...b8ee155d_o.png

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4481/...7d570f77_o.png

GT:S clearly cut the high quality model (just look the edges around the wheel arches):

No they did not. That GTS pic is from beta v1.0 where adaptive tessellation was disabled. The updates throughout the beta enabled it.
dumb
Member
(10-07-2017, 05:45 PM)
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wow iridescent effect in GTS headlights is incredible.. more subtle than in driveclub OMG

thelastword
Junior Member
(10-07-2017, 05:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Monad

It isn't crazy at all.

The car models of GT:S are absolutely amazing in both detail and presentation, but the FM7 ones actually doesn't have the "PS2 level cars" effect of the GT5/6 Standard cars, on the opposite, they're 700 pretty damn good cars with full interior and a level of detail according to the times, so it's perfectly valid to complain about the car quantity in GT:S, especially considering to Polyphony saying the last generation that the Premium models of GT5/6 (above 440 cars) would be suitable for future generations and here we are, with less than 200 cars...

Yes, and the point is if you have 700+ cars people will never play all those cars to any fair degree, if ever touch the majority of them...You had so many reviewers saying they had to wade through so many shit cars to get to the ones they wanted to drive in F7....I mean, it's good to have a great number of cars, GT not just GT5 has been doing that for years and always had the upperhand to other racers in terms of car count, but that really means nothing if people are not going to use them.

I mean, if you're saying that 180 of the best looking cars is not enough for you in a racer, where the focus is not collection but proper racing, learning to race properly and maximizing your turns etc.., not crashing, good lines etc..with physics not leaning closer to arcade, then I think maybe GTS is not for you. One thing is for sure, this GT has not been marketed as a traditional GT or else we would have had all the premiums from GT5 and 6 in there with a traditional sunday cup et al....

Originally Posted by sems4arsenal

Feel some of the textures are below the PS3 era premium cars.

I'd like to see how F7 cars measure up to GT5/6 premiums, It's clear that F7's cars are not in GTS's league..Perhaps Wax Free Vanilla can help me out here...


Originally Posted by Monad

As far as actual ingame regards, yes.

If I would have a PS4 Pro, I would make a direct comparison too, because this:



Doesn't look like this:

Maybe it's because they're two different cars.......Heh!

Originally Posted by Rayge

Damn. Project CARS on PC looks pretty damn good during gameplay. Too bad Polyphony is stuck on one platform. Then you'd probably be able to get photomode quality models while in-game.

That PC2 car is not better looking than what's in GTS, the difference I see is in resolution. GTS is 1800p CB and Forza 7 can be run at 4k on PC easily, it's also much easier to get proper and representative shots of PC2 as it's a finished game and available.....

Then you look at how PC2 cars are lit in the environment, drab track detail and you see there's no balance to the visuals...

Originally Posted by Remij

This is what I've been saying. GTS falls apart somewhat during gameplay. It does a lot of things right which make it look very good at times, but all these scapes and interiors that look amazing aren't what I'm playing.

Don't worry, in the absence of the game's release, we will hear much of that, but when these games are compared in video side by side, such arguments always fall flat. Same happened with Driveclub....

Originally Posted by Monad

I think we have a different concepts of what a hight quality model is.

For me is more than top-notch lighting and realistic shaders, is the polygonal count of the car itself and the way it's representated in the gameplay.

Gran Turismo has the best car models, there's no doubt about it, but during the game, quality is drastically reduced in order to maintain performance, and can be easily detected in direct feed content.

FM7 (at least on PC and One X) shows the high polygonal model (the same you look in Forzavista mode) during gameplay, with the full interior view visible from the outside.

IMO, this is a high quality model, I can enjoy it while I have the controller/wheel on my hands during gameplay, not just in photomode or replays:







GT:S clearly cut the high quality model (just look the edges around the wheel arches):

As I said before, GTS models in scapes and showrooms are many leagues above F7 and in game the models are still superior. You may take higher rez images from PC to boost IQ and sharpness, but that does not mean the models are better. I won't be the one to post them, but various detail levels on cars have been shown as a thing when racing in Forza 7, perhaps due to the dynamic graphic setting on PC, but it exists and so would it on XB consoles as well.

The screens shown here all show one thing, PC screens at high rez and best settings, but in there you see the pale environments, the pale cars, the lack of great lighting etc..It's the reason when you see GT cars in motion they look real and they look as something you see everyday in the environment as opposed to F7.

I'm pretty sure you have seen some of the latest gifs or vids which by now have made it on the web...Just about to load up the beta myself and getting geared for the 17th. So you know what GT cars really look like in game compared to F7 and PC2 at least. Especially when placed on a track and racing....
TheAdmiester
Member
(10-07-2017, 06:04 PM)

Originally Posted by thelastword

Yes, and the point is if you have 700+ cars people will never play all those cars to any fair degree, if ever touch the majority of them...You had so many reviewers saying they had to wade through so many shit cars to get to the ones they wanted to drive in F7....I mean, it's good to have a great number of cars, GT not just GT5 has been doing that for years and always had the upperhand to other racers in terms of car count, but that really means nothing if people are not going to use them.

I don't think anybody has ever claimed they're going to drive all 700 cars. But surely if a game has 700 cars (without a large amount of fictional/different groups of same cars), then you're more likely to find something you like? That's the whole aim of it.

But then again, it is you we're talking about here, I know for a fact that if the car counts were reversed you'd be acting like 700 cars is the best thing ever.

As I said before, GTS models in scapes and showrooms are many leagues above F7 and in game the models are still superior. You may take higher rez images from PC to boost IQ and sharpness, but that does not mean the models are better.

IQ doesn't mean the models are better, but the ingame models are better. Look at the wheel arches of the two Meganes you quoted, you conveniently seem to have missed that.
Hawk269
Member
(10-07-2017, 06:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jamesways

What a time to be a racing fan! These games look so damn good now.

Can't wait to read this shitshow of a thread in two weeks! I'll go back to posting MotoGP and WRC pics as a break in the bickering.

This. The fact we have 2 games that are console exclusive in Forza 7 for Xbox and GTS on PS4 and then PCars2 on both it is a great time to be a racing fan. Right now, for me personally since GTS is not out it is Forza that I am having a blast. Looking forward to GTS big time. Pcars2 is a technical/buggy mess right now and I have not played it recently due to the issues with the game. The underlining game is there, it is just surrounded by some serious bugs and other issues. I feel we are good 3-4 patches away unless they are working on a huge patch for consoles.

At the end of the day with Crew 2, NFS and F7, GTS, PCars2 racing fans are in a great place right now and while I realize there will always be bickering especially between F7 and GTS fans, just remember we all have great racing games to play with each having some benefits the other might not have.
Rayge
Member
(10-07-2017, 06:22 PM)
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GTS



pCARS 2

c0de
next time I babble on about sales parity, just quote my tag back at me thx friend
(10-07-2017, 06:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rayge

GTS



pCARS 2

It would be better if it was an exact match of the track position.
dumb
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:06 PM)
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I have a wider pc2 plan if you want...

ethomaz
Banned
(10-07-2017, 07:16 PM)

Originally Posted by Monad

GT:S clearly cut the high quality model (just look the edges around the wheel arches):

Sad you wonít ever play the game you took this picture because you know it didnít exists anymore lol

But you will get actual GTS pics on Monday.
ctw0e
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:24 PM)

Originally Posted by c0de

It would be better if it was an exact match of the track position.

Uhm, what?
Fredrik
Banned
(10-07-2017, 07:35 PM)

Originally Posted by benzy

No they did not. That GTS pic is from beta v1.0 where adaptive tessellation was disabled. The updates throughout the beta enabled it.

Aha. Same thing with the self-shadowing from the mirrors missing in the same pic?
Korezo
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(10-07-2017, 07:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Monad

GT:S clearly cut the high quality model (just look the edges around the wheel arches):

Where you get this picture from because the beta I played looked nothing like that, thing must be old.
c0de
next time I babble on about sales parity, just quote my tag back at me thx friend
(10-07-2017, 07:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by ctw0e

Uhm, what?

Uhm, what?
Stevey
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by c0de

Uhm, what?

It is the same position
ctw0e
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:41 PM)

Originally Posted by c0de

Uhm, what?

Oh, you were being sarcastic.

Nevermind, sorry!

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