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piggychan
Member
(10-01-2017, 01:04 AM)
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Marchen Maze - pce.. that robot design..





Dragon Spirit - pce

Laevateinn
Member
(10-01-2017, 01:20 AM)
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I played Dragon Spirits recently on my X68000. Doesnit force tate on PCE too?
piggychan
Member
(10-01-2017, 01:35 AM)
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There is a code where you press SELECT and RUN 57 times to reset then it goes into Tate-ish

EDIT

I was really getting back into STHA (and Golden Sun) then my pal modified saturn gets sick! Strangely at the same time I use my new RGB cable which was Sync over luma since I was going to use it between my japanese and pal saturns.






davidwhangchoi
Member
(10-01-2017, 02:21 AM)
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Dragon Spirit is hot!
ACESmkII
Member
(10-01-2017, 09:03 AM)
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Took a break from the SNES classic to play some PCE. A couple of shots from the Dungeon Explorer II intro.





jsnepo
Member
(10-01-2017, 10:07 AM)
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My Sony Wega doesn't seem to have scanlines. Why is that? It's not an HD CRT.
Peltz
Member
(10-01-2017, 03:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by jsnepo

My Sony Wega doesn't seem to have scanlines. Why is that? It's not an HD CRT.

It could be very low res such that the scanline effect is very subtle. Anything under 500 lines of resolution doesn't produce very discernible scanlines.

Many consumer sets are around 350 lines. Try to snap a picture of the pixels up close when playing 240p content and letting us see it.
jsnepo
Member
(10-01-2017, 04:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Peltz

It could be very low res such that the scanline effect is very subtle. Anything under 500 lines of resolution doesn't produce very discernible scanlines.

Many consumer sets are around 350 lines. Try to snap a picture of the pixels up close when playing 240p content and letting us see it.

Oh. I'll take a picture of the pixels then when I get home.
Laevateinn
Member
(10-01-2017, 06:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by ACESmkII

Took a break from the SNES classic to play some PCE. A couple of shots from the Dungeon Explorer II intro.

This looks like my kind of game. I'll have to keep an eye out so I'm ready when I finally RGB mod my PCE.
Beer Monkey
Member
(10-01-2017, 07:28 PM)

Originally Posted by jsnepo

My Sony Wega doesn't seem to have scanlines. Why is that? It's not an HD CRT.

(Gapped) scanlines were never very common back in the day outside of the arcade, where the monitors were were tightly focused and large. Also Amiga/Atari computer monitors had a big of a scanline effect when fed by consoles; typical consumer TVs not as much.

The bigger the screen and the tighter the focus of the electron beam the more likely you'll see scanlines. PVMs and BVMs have a much tighter focus than consumer sets.

High "TVL" aka "lines of resolution" doesn't really cause the 'scanline' visibility; that's just bullshit that YouTubers say; they spread so much myth in this hobby. TVL is just horizontal resolution. It's just that most sets that are engineered to have high TVL also have tighter focus of the electron beam!
Neith
Banned
(10-02-2017, 12:17 AM)
https://imgur.com/a/cPLmj

Lunar SSSC with ScaleFX and Easy Mode CRT tuned to my liking

ScaleFX is at about a 23 threshold and Easy mode is slightly different than default. A little less sharp and some other settings tweaked.

I actually like both filters here. Text is really nice with ScaleFX, and some things come across as more cartoony. The CRT looks pretty great on most things besides text.

ScaleFX doesn't look as good as with Yoshi obviously, where to me it is easily definitive, but it still looks very nice and cartoony when you get used to it. Some will hate it.

Overall I really like Easy mode setting on this comparison. All it needs is less annoying text.

Aria of Sorrow: https://imgur.com/a/Qb9SL

I been tuning my masks and gammas for each of the SNES, PS1, and GBA games. With GBA typically I like a slightly stronger mask for these side scrollers. Not too strong though. I love retroarch man. Makes tuning so damn easy and even fun. I think I'm at .3 actually for these CV games. Less mask seems to kind of make things too chunky for me. And the darker tone of the game suits it.

I been using .18 mask strength on SNES as I feel too much and the simplistic graphics start to seem a bit too dark, yet too little and the graphics have no detail. Still much prefer ScaleFX on Yoshi. Amazing filter there. PS1 mask is toned down as I don't think it suits the material for Lunar. So like a .12 vs .3 mask strength on GBA. I tried bigger masks but it doesn't seem to lend that colorful fantasy vibe a better look.

I think I'm at about .4 vs .75 on the horizontal and vertical settings in CRT Easy.
piggychan
Member
(10-02-2017, 01:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by ACESmkII

Took a break from the SNES classic to play some PCE. A couple of shots from the Dungeon Explorer II intro.

Those colours are great. Makes it look like you are playing on an emulator.

Playing the translated rom of Tower of Druaga - pce





davidwhangchoi
Member
(10-02-2017, 03:42 AM)
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hey guys, just grabbed psx Alundra over the weekend
so i took 2 shots on BVM:





Chacranajxy
I paid good money for this Dynex!
(10-02-2017, 03:49 AM)
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The PS1's output just looks so damn good. Perfect fodder for this thread.
ZeroMaverick
Member
(10-02-2017, 04:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by TaurezAG

I'm using a custom CRT-Royale in Retroarch. I tried to have bloom cover regions of high luma while retaining as much sharpness as possible.

These look really good
Ivan
Member
(10-02-2017, 04:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Beer Monkey

Also Amiga/Atari computer monitors had a big of a scanline effect when fed by consoles; typical consumer TVs not as much.

So true... I still can't believe I sold my 1084s. Stupid kid.
jsnepo
Member
(10-02-2017, 05:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by Beer Monkey

(Gapped) scanlines were never very common back in the day outside of the arcade, where the monitors were were tightly focused and large. Also Amiga/Atari computer monitors had a big of a scanline effect when fed by consoles; typical consumer TVs not as much.

The bigger the screen and the tighter the focus of the electron beam the more likely you'll see scanlines. PVMs and BVMs have a much tighter focus than consumer sets.

High "TVL" aka "lines of resolution" doesn't really cause the 'scanline' visibility; that's just bullshit that YouTubers say; they spread so much myth in this hobby. TVL is just horizontal resolution. It's just that most sets that are engineered to have high TVL also have tighter focus of the electron beam!

This is what I get.

Neith
Banned
(10-02-2017, 07:10 AM)
Some of the real scanline shots like that one of Alundra seem to look stronger than heck. Not sure if that is just the photo but I prefer emulator shaders over that look to be honest.
MrMephistoX
Member
(10-02-2017, 07:11 AM)
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While were on the subject would modern games look like CGI with scanlines? Im half serious...
TaurezAG
Junior Member
(10-02-2017, 09:49 AM)

Originally Posted by MrMephistoX

While we’re on the subject would modern games look like CGI with scanlines? I’m half serious...

Judge for yourself I guess? They do have a very unique look with scanlines.
Note: open these in a new tab and see them at 100% scaling; GAF is somehow messing up some images.





lazygecko
Member
(10-02-2017, 11:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by MrMephistoX

While were on the subject would modern games look like CGI with scanlines? Im half serious...

The main problem here is interface elements and how they're scaled/presented at modern HD resolutions. If you process the image the same way you do with retro games designed for small resolutions, text often becomes very hard to read.
piggychan
Member
(10-02-2017, 03:01 PM)
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That typography in Alundra looks great.

some Side Arms - pce. God this game is hard now. I used to be able to beat this thing now it beats me.




davidwhangchoi
Member
(10-02-2017, 03:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by piggychan

That typography in Alundra looks great.

some Side Arms - pce. God this game is hard now. I used to be able to beat this thing now it beats me.

sidearms was one of my favorite games in the arcade as a kid. i can beat it in a quarter.
pc engine is much harder bc the timing is off vs. the arcade. wow! if you were able to beat it on PCE, you were damn skilled bc i would get wiped out so fast. (i was so used to the arcade and couldn't adjust)
Laevateinn
Member
(10-03-2017, 02:02 AM)
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My RGB Twin Famicom modded by Baphomet arrived! Crossposting from RetroAV.

Originally Posted by Laevateinn





Unfortunately, I hit a milestone.












Peltz
Member
(10-03-2017, 02:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by jsnepo

This is what I get.

There are scanlines visible in the blue green area. The white area of the screen has no separation between the lines and shows full bloom/color bleed. It would be easier to see the effect if you zoomed out a bit and we could see more of the screen.

But a lot of consumer CRTs are not be very susceptible to the scanline effect in general.
jsnepo
Member
(10-03-2017, 06:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Peltz

There are scanlines visible in the blue green area. The white area of the screen has no separation between the lines and shows full bloom/color bleed. It would be easier to see the effect if you zoomed out a bit and we could see more of the screen.

But a lot of consumer CRTs are not be very susceptible to the scanline effect in general.

Here's a zoomed out one. Honestly, I can't see scanlines from a meter away from this CRT TV.

piggychan
Member
(10-03-2017, 11:16 AM)
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They are there, looks like yours has vertical lines but they are not very prominent.


Originally Posted by Laevateinn

My RGB Twin Famicom modded by Baphomet arrived! Crossposting from RetroAV.

That's the most sluttiest scart switch box I've ever seen! O_o

Bloody Wolf - pce. The colours here makes me think NES.





BTails
Member
(10-03-2017, 04:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by ACESmkII

Took a break from the SNES classic to play some PCE. A couple of shots from the Dungeon Explorer II intro.

HNNNNNGGGHHH. I absolutely ADORE early 90s anime cutscenes in video games. These shots push ALL my buttons.
Peltz
Member
(10-03-2017, 04:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by jsnepo

Here's a zoomed out one. Honestly, I can't see scanlines from a meter away from this CRT TV.

That's very common for a consumer set. The scanlines are there but very subtle. If you want thicker black lines, you'll need a sharper CRT.

Different CRTs just show 240p differently. In fact, some people would consider your set to be more authentic for having such subtle lines if it's what they grew up with.
jsnepo
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(10-03-2017, 04:26 PM)
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Oh. Cool. It confuses me though. How else are others able to say that the intended look of retro games includes scanlines if the average consumer CRT television doesn't even have visible scanlines? Honestly, I don't remember scanlines at all during the 8bit and 16bit generations. Anyway, thanks for the input.
Laevateinn
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(10-03-2017, 04:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by jsnepo

Oh. Cool. It confuses me though. How else are others able to say that the intended look of retro games includes scanlines if the average consumer CRT television doesn't even have visible scanlines? Honestly, I don't remember scanlines at all during the 8bit and 16bit generations. Anyway, thanks for the input.

I'm sure developers had reference monitors that they used to design the "true experience" on. Due to the nature of analog signals and the inconsistency in television quality you would never know exactly what an image would look like but you could at least have something held up as a gold standard.
Peltz
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(10-03-2017, 04:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by jsnepo

Oh. Cool. It confuses me though. How else are others able to say that the intended look of retro games includes scanlines if the average consumer CRT television doesn't even have visible scanlines? Honestly, I don't remember scanlines at all during the 8bit and 16bit generations. Anyway, thanks for the input.

I mean, your scanlines are visible, just not prominent. Still, even if you back away, your set doesn't show the same type of pixelization that would occur if a 240p game were scaled up to 1080p for a fixed pixel HDTV. Plus, it depends on when you're talking about - consumer sets in the mid to late 90s had more prominant scanlines than consumer sets in the early 90s and 80s.

Prominent scanlines or not, 240p definitely wasn't meant to be upscaled into an overly blocky, sharp, and heavily pixelated image. I think the presence of the lines themselves is missing the point to an extent.

But certainly, if you do upscale, adding in fake lines gives the image a more coherent look than otherwise:



In that sense, as the resolution of the monitor increases, the need for scanlines to make the image look more authentic increases as well. This occurs naturally in CRTs - higher res monitors that render 240p natively will have thicker black scanlines which offsets the increased pixelization. But the same isn't true on a fixed pixel display (e.g. a modern flat screen). That's why adding in the scanlines for high res fixed pixel screens is "more authentic" than simply upscaling without them.

So did artists intend for their artwork to have the lines there? Well I don't really think it's a relevant question. However, I think it's pretty clear that they intended for home console games to be played on CRTs, and scanlines help you get closer to that specifically on high res displays.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
(10-03-2017, 09:33 PM)

Originally Posted by jsnepo

Oh. Cool. It confuses me though. How else are others able to say that the intended look of retro games includes scanlines if the average consumer CRT television doesn't even have visible scanlines? Honestly, I don't remember scanlines at all during the 8bit and 16bit generations. Anyway, thanks for the input.

The prominence of scanlines with regards to image quality in terms of retro systems is extremely overblown. There are more factors inherent to the configuration of a typical consumer CRT display than just the presence of scanlines.

Then again, I am saying this in the scanline thread.
Theonik
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(10-03-2017, 11:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by jsnepo

Here's a zoomed out one. Honestly, I can't see scanlines from a meter away from this CRT TV.

Two points:
1) Scanlines are only really an effect on 240p content.
2) Consumer CRTs don't always show them in the way people's monitors here do because the scanlines are a result of the screen having a very fine dot pitch which is more common on expensive monitors or TVs.
TheMoon
Quest Reward:
Eye of Webster
(10-03-2017, 11:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Theonik

Two points:
1) Scanlines are only really an effect on 240p content.
2) Consumer CRTs don't always show them in the way people's monitors here do because the scanlines are a result of the screen having a very fine dot pitch which is more common on expensive monitors or TVs.

example: shot I took over the weekend of my childhood TV (PAL) running DKC:
jsnepo
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(10-04-2017, 05:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Theonik

Two points:
1) Scanlines are only really an effect on 240p content.
2) Consumer CRTs don't always show them in the way people's monitors here do because the scanlines are a result of the screen having a very fine dot pitch which is more common on expensive monitors or TVs.

Yeah. I have come to realize the 2nd point which also means having scanlines isn't the intended look but more like a preference since the average consumer TVs didn't have them visibly.
piggychan
Member
(10-05-2017, 01:33 AM)
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pce



AmyS
Member
(10-06-2017, 05:26 AM)
Saturn / S-Video on a Toshiba 36AF41 which is not in the best of shape but certainly usable.



(Salamander 2).
davidwhangchoi
Member
(10-06-2017, 05:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by AmyS

Saturn / S-Video on a Toshiba 36AF41 which is not in the best of shape but certainly usable.



(Salamander 2).

i want that game!!!! nice pic!
AmyS
Member
(10-06-2017, 05:36 AM)

Originally Posted by davidwhangchoi

i want that game!!!! nice pic!

Thx - I wish it would come out on Arcade Archives for current consoles so everyone could enjoy it.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:42 PM)

Originally Posted by AmyS

Thx - I wish it would come out on Arcade Archives for current consoles so everyone could enjoy it.

Salamander 2 gets slept on, it'd better than any other Gradius game to me. Very much a standout game in that series.
cireza
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(10-06-2017, 03:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by jsnepo

Here's a zoomed out one. Honestly, I can't see scanlines from a meter away from this CRT TV.

Is this a 240p game ? If this is a 480i game, you won't see any scanline which is absolutely normal.

Looking at the picture (some kind of artwork), I have some doubts about the fact that it is 240 lines. Looks 480 to me.
jsnepo
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(10-06-2017, 04:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by cireza

Is this a 240p game ? If this is a 480i game, you won't see any scanline which is absolutely normal.

Looking at the picture (some kind of artwork), I have some doubts about the fact that it is 240 lines. Looks 480 to me.

It's 240p. It's from the 240p test suite.
Lettuce
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(10-06-2017, 08:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Peltz

So did artists intend for their artwork to have the lines there? Well I don't really think it's a relevant question. However, I think it's pretty clear that they intended for home console games to be played on CRTs, and scanlines help you get closer to that specifically on high res displays.


Well surely the artist of these game created the sprites with scanlines in mind as they'd know that every other line would be blanked out and design the sprites based on this!?
Peltz
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(10-06-2017, 09:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lettuce

Well surely the artist of these game created the sprites with scanlines in mind as they'd know that every other line would be blanked out and design the sprites based on this!?

I would think so. You can see it in a lot of promo shoots from back then. I don't have a lot of pictures on hand to show this, but I've certainly seen it before. From my personal collection, here's a picture of a manual from Nazo No Murasamejou on Famicom Disk System:

From another Famicom game manual who's name escapes me:



If you look in off-screen photos old videogame magazines and manuals, you'll see a ton more with scanlines. It was typical in the NES days specifically before developers had screenshot tools and relied on photographs to make their promo stuff.
Neith
Banned
(10-07-2017, 07:32 AM)
It was interesting to see they picked a really nice filter for Sonic Mania. It would be cool if someone could get some real shots from the SNES Classic.

From what I have seen I will take easy mode CRT and BSNES over it.
AmyS
Member
(10-07-2017, 09:00 AM)
PS2 / component cable.





TheMoon
Quest Reward:
Eye of Webster
(10-07-2017, 11:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by Neith

It was interesting to see they picked a really nice filter for Sonic Mania. It would be cool if someone could get some real shots from the SNES Classic.

From what I have seen I will take easy mode CRT and BSNES over it.

just shots from crt mode in general or you want shots from it running on a crt? the former I can do, the latter I can't (no way to get the hdmi connected a crt)
Vespa
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(10-07-2017, 03:12 PM)
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Snes mini in pixel perfect mode with a scanline generator/OSSC on a pc CRT monitor:




The additional scanlines aren't perfectly matched to the res, unfortunately, if you look at Guile's health bar you can see that the top white border is thicker than the lower when it should be the same. That being said it looks better than the inbuilt blurry CRT filter.
piggychan
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(10-07-2017, 03:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Vespa

Snes mini in pixel perfect mode with a scanline generator/OSSC on a pc CRT monitor:

That's how I intend to roll with my SNES mini but now on the hunt to find a HDMI to VGA adapter. I just got a cable of ebay which I was hoping would have been an easy no fuss HDMI to VGA cable but alas it doesn't work. Requesting a refund..

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